Painting questions and stuff

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Painting questions and stuff

December 12, 2004, 01:14:57 PM

well, ive been putting a lot of thought into painting my cars myself, and im fully capable of masking and spraying, but there are a lot of other things involved...onto the questioning!

both my cars have multiple layers of paint, the red one has 2, the TC has quite a few more, appears to be 3 layers of primer, 3 of paint, if i were to paint the car, of course i need to sand it, but would it be nessesary to take it to bare metal? if so, what grits of paper would i need to go through the clear/paint/primer, without tearing too much into the metal and puddy (yeah, both cars have puddy)

next question concerns molding removal, since the car has so many layers of paint, some paint around the molding is cracked, would it be nessesary to remove the molding and to sand these areas, or should i leave the molding on, sand the best i can and just spray it from there? if i remove the molding, i recall CougarCobra from CougarNuts saying he removed the aluminum strips from the molding so the rubber would take its original shape...would that be a good idea?

next question concerns "finish" sanding, depending on how much paint i have, id love to lay down something like 3 full coats of paint (not including the night light first coat), and maybe the same amount of coats of clear. since ill be spraying clearcoat, would i have to do any wet sanding to the base coat other than to remove any runs? once the clear is laid down, what is the wet sanding process for clear? ive wet sanded basecoat, but never clear

i think this covers most of my bases for the moment, i may reply with more questions later

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #1 – December 12, 2004, 02:32:05 PM

No you don't need to go down to bare metal in order to paint it. I usually use 220 grit to start the sanding then move to 320. Once primered I use 320 to sand the primer. I depends on the primer what grit to use,i t should say on the primer what grit to use. As for the molding, if you are painting the same color I would leave it on and sand it on the car, but if you are changing color I would recommend taking it off so you can paint underneath the molding. I don't know how hard it would be to re-attach the molding, I just left mine off. With the base coat sanding that depends how good you are with a spray gun. If you are good you probably won't need to do any base sanding. And with the clear coat you shouldn't need to sand that unless you are trying to remove the orange peel.

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #2 – December 12, 2004, 03:24:07 PM

If you do plan on taking the car to bare metal (which wouldnt be a bad thing but is alot of work) an orbital sander and 40 grit works best in my experience and you would have to remove the mouldings. Also if you plan on using a metallic paint you shouldnt sand the final coat of paint at all, if you plan on sanding and buffing the clear remember that three coats of clear is pretty thin and you risk cutting into the colour coat, and if you are using a metallic paint you just screwed yourself

Oh yeah a paint booth of some sort is handy aswell unless you enjoy sanding flys out of your paint

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #3 – December 12, 2004, 04:54:44 PM

well, id be painting the car exactly as it is from the factory, the molding would be painted black again, and the molding would be clearcoated with the car

im actually pretty good with a spray gun, spray cans or spray gun, its VERY rare i run paint, but clear is a bit harder to spray seeing as its a bit thinner

so how many coats of clear should i do, 5-6?

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #4 – December 12, 2004, 05:17:35 PM

The more the merrier. :ies:

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #5 – December 12, 2004, 05:57:59 PM

Myself, I'd just take it down to metal but it will add a few weeks to the job (unless you have all the free time in the world). With body fillers, I'd just get rid of most of the paint and repaint over whats left. In my experience, none of the fillers take well to being sanded. You can't really do much damage with 150grit or finer sandpaper if wetsanding, but rougher stuff will cut through the layers of paint in no time.

On the molding, remember that the actual molding on the car wasn't painted from the factory. The painted front and rear bumper isn't anything but the bumper cover given the shape of the side molding. Head to a junkyard and practice taking the molding off of a wrecked car. By the time you get one side off, you should have enough practice to do a lot better job on the other. Leaving it on will most likely cause the clearcoat to chip off prematurely down the road.

Sanding the base paint won't be necessary unless you want a perfect (better than factory) finish. It'll give perfect deep (below clearcoat) reflections, but required more coats of paint to make sure you don't sand through when going through orangepeel. Decent paint will lay down pretty flat without running with next to no extra effort.

With clearcoat, I'd just throw say 10 coats on and then wetsand with 220 (only to get past any big orangepeel), 320, 400, and 600 grit. Follow with rubbing compound. Let dry for at least a week (I've had surfaces turn out great after even a couple days though). Rubbing compound again, polish, wax. The more clearcoat, the deeper the shine, the harder it'll be to notice orange peel on the base coat if you choose to skip sanding, and the more often you can deoxidize the finish with rubbing compound without going through to the base coat (wax is your friend).

Just preparing the surface properly, having the right environment, and PATIENCE will give you excellent results. A 70-80 degree and 60% humidity day has given me excellent results in the past, surprising since I thought it'd run. If I get around to it, I'll post pictures of the side panels of this pc that I did a few months ago. On the car, i've only done bumpers, trim, and fixed clearcoat chips so far so the size of the pc's side panels will give a better representation.

edit:
Well looking at the thing, I found a nice small gouge in part of the clearcoat. See what happens when you put it to use before it has time to cure? Stupid me :screwy:

once again, patience is important :)

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #6 – December 13, 2004, 12:06:05 PM

thanks guys, i appreciate the replies

actually, the turbo coupes had painted/cleared molding, i checked out 2 or 3 others for sale with a buddy a while back, and 2 of em had the clearcoat deteriorating on the bumper covers

so it looks that i wont be painting the TC for a good while, but ill probably be painting the red bird before then, since withint these next few months, the red bird is being pulled back off the road so the TC can be daily driven

i wont have the month or so of time to do the TC right, but once the red bird is off the road, ill be able to take all the time i want, i have a family member who has a 68 charger in bas need of body work and paint, and basically, im getting use of their garage for when i do my car, and in return (if i do a good job on my car...which i will), ill have to spray the charger

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #7 – December 13, 2004, 04:24:16 PM

the last TC I saw had normal rubber/plastic side moulding I believe. You sure they were actually clearcoated? Take some rubbing compound to it and see if black comes off. I know the "moulding" (once again, its not the same as the sides, its just the bumper cover painted black/red and cleared) on the bumpers are painted.

Any ideas on how to actually make the side moulding shine up? the moulding between the wheels is a different material than what is between the wheels and bumpers.

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #8 – December 13, 2004, 04:59:18 PM

Quote from: tbirdscott

if you plan on sanding and buffing the clear remember that three coats of clear is pretty thin and you risk cutting into the colour coat, and if you are using a metallic paint you just screwed yourself

Unless this is to be a show car, scuff & buff will probably not be necessary. Even so, three coats should be sufficient since you don't need to sand a lot of clear off. Besides, you should be using 1500-2000 grit paper to wet sand a clear finish(pretty slow). Also, if there is a clear coat on top of your color, then metallic has absolutely nothing to do with anything so you will not have screwed yourself.

Think long and hard about whether you really want to tackle a scuff & buff as this is a lot of work and isn't for the inexperienced. Take it from me - I am a licenced painter.

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #9 – December 13, 2004, 05:15:59 PM

Quote from: blakct

Think long and hard about whether you really want to tackle a scuff & buff as this is a lot of work and isn't for the inexperienced. Take it from me - I am a licenced painter.

This is true, it'll take a LOT of time.

I don't like the shine I got with 2 heavy coats of clear I've done over a painted surface so I'd recommend a few more. Lots of layers of clear can always make a paint job look that much better, even if its nothing more than needless thickening

and blakct, I may have some questions for you down the road that have to do with painting. Spray gun models, paint types, changing car color (inside part of doors have me stumped, do painters just leave the inside around the door panels alone?), etc. Once I can land an IT job, I plan on repainting the entire car, possibly panel by panel. Need to get a second car for transportation for that time period though

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #10 – December 13, 2004, 05:16:13 PM

Quote from: Seek

the last TC I saw had normal rubber/plastic side moulding I believe. You sure they were actually clearcoated? Take some rubbing compound to it and see if black comes off. I know the "moulding" (once again, its not the same as the sides, its just the bumper cover painted black/red and cleared) on the bumpers are painted.

Any ideas on how to actually make the side moulding shine up? the moulding between the wheels is a different material than what is between the wheels and bumpers.

That's rather interesting. On my '88 XR7 the small trim pieces between the wheels and bumpers were hard plastic.

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #11 – December 13, 2004, 05:22:19 PM

Quote from: cougarcragar

That's rather interesting. On my '88 XR7 the small trim pieces between the wheels and bumpers were hard plastic.

They are hard plastic on the TCs also.

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #12 – December 13, 2004, 07:23:23 PM

When it comes to clearcoat, too many coats can lead to a dull finish as the solvent entrapment causes solvent pop and loss of integrity. Always follow the manufacturers instructions - these should be available as a tech sheet from the supplier upon request.

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #13 – December 13, 2004, 09:59:21 PM

Just curious, what is a "licenced painter". What do you need a license for, do you have to pass some type of certification?

Re: Painting questions and stuff

Reply #14 – December 14, 2004, 12:06:55 AM

Quote from: merccougar50

Just curious, what is a "licenced painter". What do you need a license for, do you have to pass some type of certification?

As a licenced automotive painter I am certified by the Government of Ontario through the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities under the Appreniceship and Certification Act, 1998. By meeting the Interprovincial Standard I am certified in all of Canada.blahblahblah.

What this means is that I have passed a government exam in the field of body shop painting. This is recognized by body shop employers as an acceptable standard of achievement in this field and makes me more eligible for employment than a painter who has no licence. Yes, you can work in the industry without it, but it is easier to find a job with proof of education.
Basically I am trained to use most paint types, mix, blend, colour match, prep for paint, Safety specifics, tool usage etc. Currently I paint class 8 trucks for International (Big rigs) but during a recent 3 1/2 year layoff I painted for a tier 1 plastic parts supplier. We painted parts for Suzuki, Sea-doo, General motors, Ford, Thermo king, and Chrysler. Years earlier I worked in a body shop and I still paint cars on the side occasionally.
There is a lot more to consistantly achieving factory quality finishes than just pulling the trigger, and my licence says I am capable of all facets of refinishing.
Now the irony ... My day job only requires me to pull the trigger, somebody else does the thinking for me. :crazy: but it pays really well

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