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Poll

What should I do?

Total Members Voted: 51

Topic: As God is my witness I know not what to do... (Read 8907 times) previous topic - next topic

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #15 –
I voted based on what I'm planing in my situation. As you know, our situations are very similar.
 
I have a 88 sport sitting in the driveway with the 5.0 and I just got a 87 TC. The TC has a great body while the sport is a rust bucket. I also have a 351W block sitting in the shed. My plan is to keep the 2.3 in the TC (if I can get the power assisted clutch to work) and build the 5.0 or the 351W when I get money. When/If the 2.3 turbo gives me any problems I'll swap in the built motor.
 
If I were in your situation I don't think I would touch the low milage 5.0 but I would leave it in while I build the 2.3, 351W or another 5.0. I would then store the low milage 5.0 for future use. Who knows, you may want to go back to stock someday down the road.

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #16 –
Where did the idea that I was rich come in? :rollin:

Sure, I got that settlement back in December, , but I bought a house and the Volvo, and am doing major renovations to the house. I've got a fair bit of $$ left but certainly not what I'd call "rich", and I don't want to spend it all on the car anyway. I'm looking to spend about $5k on the car, and that includes the paint job that is gonna cost about $1600.

Shame302: I would love a 32-valve modular, but this would involve far more work and money than I want to invest, and trying to find a donor Mark VIII or Cobra would be mission impossible 'round here.

Chuck: The house I bought is 40 miles from the city, so the TC drivetrain's highway efficiency would come in handy. The car is essentially going to be used for "Sunday drives", likely not even seeing rain again if I can help it.

5.0willgo and Claude: Wiring is not a problem. It's what I do :D I would be more than capable of making a complete custom harness if it proved to be too much a pain in the ringpiece to remove the ABS/PRC  from the existing TC harness...


I don't know when that 351 is gonna be available - my brother is notorious for driving his vehicles into the ground. He told me I could have the van when he's ready to junk it, but knowing him the rods will be hanging out the bottom end of the blockand the pistons will be sidways in their bores by that time. The 351 option is a long-range project, one that once I actually get the engine I will pick at over time (and if my LED tail lights and indiglo dash projects are any indication I'll be as old as Tom before it happens) so I suppose it's basically down to either the HO or TC choices, and I'm about 50/50 with each choice.

The TC swap has the major advantage that I've already got the donor car, while the HO route has the advantage that the white car is already set up for it. For the few days I drove the TC I loved the 5-speed aspect and the car felt much more balanced than the V8 car but when I think about it I was not really impressed with the engine itself - it pulled OK, but I did not like the sound (stock lers) - my Dakota sounds sportier. On the other hand I know a Gillis valve and 3" dp (and perhaps even a T3 swap) would wake it up.

Of course, with the HO conversion I suppose could add a set of heads, a cam and an intake even with the stock bottom end as long as I didn't get too stupid with the cam (I believe Tom is [or was] running stock flat-top pistons with his Twisted Wedge heads quite successfully), but then this would also require mass air (no big issue), a larger TB, bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump - the expenses just keep adding up...

---but then again, with the exception of the lower intake, all these parts would transfer over to the 351 down the road...

Oh hell, I think I've made the decision even harder now.

Maybe I'll roll a dice, or pick a card, or flip a coin, or....
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #17 –
i vote for the 5.0

Quote
Have you ever considered a stroker kit? With a 331 you could have those extra cubes while still using 5.0 parts for the engine. You could keep the fuel injection too for better economy and driveability. A 347 would offer more torque, but some people are leary of the reliability of those.


ok IMO why stroke a 302 ? . y not just save that money a get a 351? and build that ?
just my :2c:

Z
hunting for another 87-88 bird
If it's got tits or tires its gunna cost you money !

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #18 –
FYI Carm, just because you have a S.O 5.0L doesn't rule out upgrading it beyond H.O specs. Especailly if the miles are low. Tom's been running his setup (stock S.O shortblock) for darn well over 4-5 years now, beating the piss out if it at the track and with N20 on top of that with the worst breakage so far being the tranny and the HG's. You can get aftermarket heads that are meant to clear flat top pistons (fairly cheaply in fact) and still allow you to use a big cam. Best of all, you'll have a killer N/A setup as the flat tops will help with the CR.
Duckin' agents like we was trapped in da matrix!

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #19 –
Because a 5.0 bolts right in with no clearance issues, no custom oil pan required, no custom headers, no extra weight over the front axle, and it will accept any standard 5.0 intake...

...at least those are the reasons I would imagine.
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #20 –
E) 300 I6. :p (well, you DID say you wanted to "steal the idea out from under me"..)

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #21 –
Everyone is worried about the weight of a 351.  Now how much more does one weigh?  Can't be more than 50 pounds if that.  Hell if you put aluminum heads on it that would put it below the SO thats in there now.  And relocate the battery.  That would offset about 30 pounds.
One 88

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #22 –
The 351 is the exact same as the 302 block except that it has a taller deck height and more stroke. So the only issue may be it fitting nice, weight would be a very minor difference. I know that with my carbed small block swap Im doing that once i removed the computer, wiring,smog pumps and EVERTHING else that is related to the computer and the smog system i am positive that an aluminum intake /head small block would be a lot less than what was in there for weight to begin with! Good luck with what ever you choose to do. Personally i have no issues with FI vehicles i just cant stand all the wiring and  everywhere you look under the hood. You would be surprized how clean it looks without all of the wires etc. As far as reliability issue that people are talking about regarding carbs...i have never had a carb let me down, they may need some tweeking here and there but they are extremely reliable if you rebuild and take care of when required. The rebuilt kit for my Edelbrock 600cfm was not even 40$ and any monkey can rebuild one of those in a hour and a half and away you go. Just my opinion. Keep in mind i dont care about fuel economy though.

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #23 –
Quote from: CougarSE
Everyone is worried about the weight of a 351.  Now how much more does one weigh?  Can't be more than 50 pounds if that.  Hell if you put aluminum heads on it that would put it below the SO thats in there now.  And relocate the battery.  That would offset about 30 pounds.


First off NO CARB!!! Only thing around here with a carb, is my old Cobra Jet and the lawn mower....

Claude nailed it... A aluminum headed 351 will weigh within 10-15 lbs of the 5.0 that is in the car now. But thats gonna be a big money project, rebuilding the 351 and buying all the parts...

If you want to make any real NA power with a small block Ford, you're gonna have to ante up for a good set of heads... My reccomendation would be keep the 5.0 and slap a set of Trick Flow heads on it, as they work with the flattops. If you don't want the rumpty rump cam, use a stock HO and a set of 1.7 rockers. For induction go with the GT40/Cobra/Explorer intake. With this setup I'd recomend 24lb inj., 65 mm TB and mass air. A set of 1 5/8" headers, 2 1/2" exaust system and you are set. Yea this is basically my setup, but it out ran a '04 Vett at the 1/8mi drags Sat night by almost half second(8.50s[approx 13.25 1/4] vs 8.90s). This combo will make a solid 325 crank hp and with the 5 speed would produce prob 300 RWH(more than my AOD, TF cammed 5.0) Unfortunatly speed is relative to the amount of money you spend, ultimately the decision is yours.

This is the 7th year beating on mine(been to Carlisle PA five years straight, and Cat Jam in '02), she's taking a lickin' and is still tickin'. Next week I'm going inside it, to hopefully just install a set of main bearings to fix a thrust issue it has(over .100 end play in the crank). Maybe throwing in a 308 from the Blue Bird I sold Warbird, if the crank has serious issues.

Final note...I am absoutly not a fan of the E7 heads(gave a set to the s guy, they need valve job), I'd go with the turbo 2.3 first(but then higher milage 2.3s sometimes have cracks in the exaust valve area). Even the GT40 irons are far better than the E7s, and something like Windsor Jrs. are light years ahead.

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #24 –
I vote for the 5.0 HO,  The swap is easy.  Im a fan of a carb so i would use that as well.  Performance is ieasy to gain in a 5.0 and easier on the wallet that a 351.  For 3k including all machine work I'm pulling 350hp at the wheels with a N/A 5.0, I'm not to familiar with the 2.3  so I really cant comment on the +'s or -'s to them.  I know the 351 can be a power house but the cost is high, and reliablitly is low.

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #25 –
I agree with tom. And even if you dont like the 302, the 351 would be a good start. I honestly dont think that it would make that ig a diffrence.


Get the e7 heads off a v-8 truck or van, upper intake isnt gonna cost that much and a t-5 would be killer.

Just do what tom said. You dont need to be so difficult about it.

A 2.3 wouldnt be bad though.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

tisk tisk

Reply #26 –
Quote from: t-bird85
I know the 351 can be a power house but the cost is high, and reliablitly is low.

I do respect your knowledge and experiance but I must argue your point. How could a rebuilt 351 be less reliable. Even with a brand new carb out of the box it will start easy and run like a champ. But if he goes EFI like he should ( ;) ) I could see the 351 being more reliable than say the stroker motors that others have recomended. I know you have read the horror stories about the 347 and the wrist pin being too high into the ring lands.
One 88

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #27 –
Only thing my EFI setup cost me over the 302 was the distributor.
Duckin' agents like we was trapped in da matrix!

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #28 –
Quote from: t-bird85
I know the 351 can be a power house but the cost is high, and reliablitly is low.

Since when does the 351W have reliability issues?
1980 birds X 3, 1982 bird, 1984 XR7, 1988 TC

As God is my witness I know not what to do...

Reply #29 –
I say 5.0 HO, but I agree with Tom, aluminum heads would be way better, lighter, and you'd get more power out of them to boot.  Trickflow released their 185cc Twisted Wedges which I haven't seen the numbers on, but I know they compete with the AFR 185's quite well.  I think when I get the chance I am going to go the 331 route myself as thesoldan mentioned.  Something about that extra displacement with a near perfect bore to stroke ratio and a good set of aluminum heads is just music to my ears.  And with a Edelbrock or Holley intake manifold is good for about 400BHP from my research. 

Break Down:
331 Srtoker kit from CHP $900.00
Pair of Twisted Wedges  $1200.00
New Cam $600.00
Holley Systemax II Intake Manifold $600.00

Those would be the biggest parts to pay for.  And these are all prices from catalogues and the net, you could probably score a lot of it for way cheaper.  Step up to a high flow fuel system, and MAF and finish of the attention to detail and you have a badass ride.  You could have it done for $4400.00 easy and then get it painted.  Just my idea though, and what I one day hope to have under my hood.

And besides I thought you wanted a tubro-4 Ranger.

P.S. It also makes for badass vanity plates: 331PWRD or 5PT4BRD :grinno: