Re: Something to ponder... Reply #15 – November 25, 2004, 08:32:11 AM yeah, boring sells. all i hear is praise from the new G8 and Grand Prix now that they are completely soulless. the hell's going on here... just need to get these people bus passes, cars used to have personality! now they're just.... *bleh* Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #16 – November 25, 2004, 09:07:59 AM I shall laugh at the first Cop Station Wagon I see as well as every one after that. Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #17 – November 25, 2004, 08:05:51 PM Laugh all you want. I really, REALLY want a hemi magnum wagon! It is so anti-cool that it is the coolest !!! Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #18 – November 25, 2004, 09:24:08 PM It's the ultimate new age surf-wagon. How can that NOT be cool? :D Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #19 – November 25, 2004, 09:36:46 PM wonder how long before the aftermarket steps up with a 'woody' conversion Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #20 – November 25, 2004, 10:05:23 PM Quote from: tbirdscottwonder how long before the aftermarket steps up with a 'woody' conversion More like, 'how long before Dodge makes a woody variant California Cruiser, just like with the PT Cruiser?' I'm sure Chrysler has every intention of making one down the road as a special edition. Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #21 – November 25, 2004, 11:45:46 PM Quote from: Thunder ChickenThose of you who mock the 500's bland appearance need to remember one important thing: That car was brought about to compete with the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, the world's two bestselling cars. They are the bestselling cars despite the fact that they are probably two of the most boring appliances on the road. They sell because they are disturbingly reliable, hold their value better, and have a loyal customer base. Ford does not have this luxury and cannot trump Honda/Toyota with another bland alternative that is unproven in the minds of the general public.Nissan's Altima sells well because it is radical, and that's the only way Ford can take the 500 over the top. I expect Honda and Toyota will be #1 and #2 again for the next 2-3 years. And the Taurus isn't being replaced by the 500, the Ford Fusion will replace it as the fleet car/cheap wheels for Ford. The 500 is a flagship ride like a Passat or a Avalon. Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #22 – November 26, 2004, 12:04:23 AM Quote from: pro-five-ohThey sell because they are disturbingly reliable, hold their value better, and have a loyal customer base. While Ford does not have the loyal customer base advantage (well it does, but not to the extent of Honda/Toyota), the fact that the new car is built on a platform that is proven reliable and safe, and also underpins a "premium" european import (with a very strong reputation for reliability and safety) greatly diminishes these two factors as advantages for the puppiesanese. The 500 also has the advantage of not only taking on Honda and Toyota (and eventually Nissan when the power finally arrives), but also Subaru's Legacy and Outback (with the 500-based Freestyle). It does not take long for a company to shed its "unreliable" image. Just look at Hyundai. IN 1984 they were selling the Chevette-ish Pony, now they're selling $30k SUV's. Offering a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty helped to diminish the poor quality reputation as well. Cutting edge does sometimes sell well, a fact made obvious by the success of the then-revolutionary 1986-1994 Taurus and 1994-2001 Dodge Ram truck. It only sells well when it's done right, though. Done wrong, it can be a spectacular failure (Aztek, anyone?) and Ford is not in the postion to be able to risk a spectacular failure. Too futuristic and you alienate traditional family sedan buyers. Too retro and you alienate the young ones, plus you limit the car's life expectancy (there is a reason the PT Cruiser and New Beetle are essentially unchanged - how do you update a retro design?). It's this reason that I think the Mustang's days are numbered as well. Like the PT, New Beetle and Thunderbird it will be a smashing success out of the gate, but once the public gets used to seeing them the sales will dwindle like mad. The key to the long-term success of the 500 rests in Ford's desire to keep it successful. A mild freshening in a few years, a power infusion, and various upgrades should help prevent the 500 from falling into the same trap that the Lincoln LS and MN12 T-Bird/Cougar did. Ford started off poorly by releasing the car before the 3.5 Duratec was ready, but if they can gather momentum they will need to stay on top of the car in order to keep that momentum. Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #23 – November 26, 2004, 01:31:39 AM Quote from: Thunder Chickenthe fact that the new car is built on a platform that is proven reliable and safe, and also underpins a "premium" european import greatly diminishes these two factors as advantages for the puppiesanese.I couldn't agree with you more, but that is a very hard sell to most Accord and Camry buyers. They are pretty much convinced that American cars are inferior and unless they screw up big time, nothing is gonna change that. Those cars are made in America, 99% American parts, and are priced competitively...there is little reason to buy a Ford. ESPECIALLY a boring looking one. :(Quote from: Thunder ChickenCutting edge does sometimes sell well, a fact made obvious by the success of the then-revolutionary 1986-1994 Taurus...Ford is not in the postion to be able to risk a spectacular failure. Ford wasn't in a good financial position back in 1986, either. I wouldn't be surprised if the early 1980s Ford finances were worse then the current problems. They were pretty close to needing a government bailout just like Chrysler in 1980. Ford just had BALLS back then. ;)Unless you are Honda and Toyota who can make anything profitable with all the positive press they have, you only win in this game when you 1)recognize the needs of the market and 2)take bold but refined styling risks. The 500 has nailed #1, if you ask me. But if you are meek, you will be rewarded meekly. The Pontiac Aztek did neither, and it failed. Ditto the GTO. I expect the Chrysler 300 will tank soon too because its cheaply made and looks like a Checker Cab that went to Harvard. Quote from: Thunder ChickenThe key to the long-term success of the 500 rests in Ford's desire to keep it successful. A mild freshening in a few years, a power infusion, and various upgrades should help prevent the 500 from falling into the same trap that the Lincoln LS and MN12 T-Bird/Cougar did. Agreed, but I am less than optomistic about that. Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #24 – November 26, 2004, 02:11:11 AM It's looks just don't get my gears turning... at least not the way ford has done it. Looks like a big (new) Focus. And, it doesn't really look all that big in the first place. Maybe an SVT person would let me stop hating it. Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #25 – November 26, 2004, 06:50:33 AM OMG... :disappoin This thing is ugly.... the side look like a Ford Focus, front grille from Crown Vic and a front windows from a subway Wagon... :shoothead Henry Ford must be spinning in his grave..... I Hope its better than it look like... Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #26 – November 26, 2004, 10:29:38 AM I would love to know where you guys are getting the Focus looks from? Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #27 – November 26, 2004, 11:59:16 AM Comparing it to other cars, it obviously was influenced by German designs...J Mays worked for Audi before he came here.J Mays obviously had the Audi A6 when he made the roofline, its a pretty blatent copy. The side reminds me of a Passat, but even taller. The front and back ends look a lot like a focus...especially the grille as the new focus was redesigned last year. The back also looks like a Focus sedan, mostly because of the shape of the taillights and the locations and sizes of the badges on the trunklid. For some reason Ford thinks its a good idea to be tying the 500 with the Focus. Whatever. :rolleyes: Quote Selected
Re: Something to ponder... Reply #28 – November 26, 2004, 12:06:45 PM In the grille area is where I see the most similarity. Just the generic-ed up shape. Quote Selected
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