Something to ponder...

Topic: Something to ponder... (Read 4413 times) previous topic - next topic

Something to ponder...

November 23, 2004, 10:33:01 PM

Just the facts:

FACT: The new Ford 500 is based on the Volvo S70/V90/XC90 platform
FACT: This platform supports FWD and AWD drivetrains, both of which are offered in the 500
FACT: Back in the mid 90's Ford had a joint venture with Yamaha Marine. The 3.4-liter, 60-degree V8 found in the SHO was the result.
FACT: Volvo is now offering a 3.6-liter (I think, not sure of the displacement), 300+ horsepower 60-degree V8 loosely based on the old SHO engine in the XC90 SUV
FACT: The 500 is being marketed as Ford's flagship sedan
FACT: The 500 has been widely criticized for being nearly perfect except for its meagre 200-horse 3.0 V6
FACT: A new 250-horse 3.5 Duratec will be installed in the 500 in a few years
FACT: GM has already started offering a260-horse Northstar V8 in the Bonneville and will soon offer a 300+ horse 4.3 or 4.8 V8 based on the LS1 in the Impala, the 500's direct competitor from GM
FACT: The hemi-powered 300C and Magnum have been selling faster than DaimlerChrysler can build them. A new Charger will soon be joining the lineup.
FACT: Perhaps even more than the 60's, there is a serious horsepower war going on right now
FACT: If the new Volvo/Yamaha V8 fits in the XC90 it will also fit in the 500
FACT: Designing an engine like this costs far too much to be profitable to be offered only in one model, in limitied numbers

Now then, bearing those facts in mind, and bearing that SVT will be needing some new models very soon to compete with GMPP and Mopar Performance, and the 500 needs a shot of power anyway, who thinks we'll see a spiritual successor to the SHO in the form of a V8, AWD SVT-badged 500? Discuss

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #1 – November 24, 2004, 12:11:30 AM

I wouldn't doubt it at all. Discussed. :p

Now, if Ford and Chevy would start putting out some serious RWD's like Chrysler, then I'll finally be able to declare that motown has truley gotten its mojo back. (I can't take credit for that one. A MT editor came up with that one. But I just can't shake it. I get all giddy inside just thinking about it.)

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #2 – November 24, 2004, 01:31:55 AM

I went and looked at the 500 just to see what they looked like, as I will need to dump the taurus in a couple years. I did not care for the look, although maybe it will grow on me. It seems high and short which I did not like but maybe driving it, or seeing more of them will help, as would having a 3.5. I'd really like a stang, but not enough trunk space for my needs. Who knows maybe something will strike my tastes by the time I am ready.

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #3 – November 24, 2004, 10:57:51 AM

well now that you mensioned it, their probley going to put a 4cylinder and 3 speed automatic in the car with paint that says screw you all over it. jk, but seriously lately ford has been loosing my interest, hopefully the can get it back with some nicer looking new cars. that new 3 valve truck is terrable imo. then again, i dont pdi all the new cars anymore... :(

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #4 – November 24, 2004, 11:34:34 AM

Saw the 500. Looks like a cross between a Taurus and the old style Chevy Caprice. Happened to see one in white and thought "If they add a V8 that car will be sold as a police interceptor package." Big, roomy, 4 doors, and good acceleration, and sold in bulk rate at a decent price seems like a win/win situation for FoMoCo

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #5 – November 24, 2004, 11:43:36 AM

Let's hope the 500 doesn't replace the CrownVic, though.

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #6 – November 24, 2004, 11:44:49 AM

If only the guy hadn't simply designed the Passat all over again, just with lexus headlights and mercedes tails.

I stood beside the 500 the other day, while checking out the Mustang in person. I was really not impressed. And in no way did it resemble a Ford.

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #7 – November 24, 2004, 12:49:16 PM

Quote from: Ifixyawata

Let's hope the 500 doesn't replace the CrownVic, though.

Word.

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #8 – November 24, 2004, 02:41:04 PM

You're right, the buzz is there...though the V8 version of the 500 will probably wind up being a Lincoln to spice up their nearly dead non-SUV offering. Odds are it will either replace the LS or replace both the LS and Town Car.

It may be a great vehicle, but the FWD based chassis is not the wave of the future like it was 25 years ago...especially in Lincoln form. Read this:

http://www.blueovalnews.com/2004/lincolnmerc/lincoln.killingthehotrod.htm

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #9 – November 24, 2004, 02:49:44 PM

I've heard rumors that it both will, and will NOT replace the Panther chassis, but at least there's an '05 Panther, so the sheer fact that they're coexisting is a good sign. However, I doubt this thing will replace the Taurus AND the CV. Besides... what are cops gonna use for RWD police cars... Dodge Magnums? Oh wait.... :(

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #10 – November 24, 2004, 04:40:07 PM

A 500 SHO would be pretty sweet. Maybe even make it look more appealing with cosmetic upgrades as well as power. Because right now that thing is horrendous! Prolly the worse looking AWD car in a long time. lol.

Like many others, i am displeased by what Ford and GM have to offer. Chrysler is looking better... i would have never considered owning a Neon until now. ^_^ I turned my eye away from GM when they took the 94-96 Impala SS and maimed it. Then killed the F-Body. And the GTO was too much. One of the few FWD cars i liked (Grand Prx GT), was changed for the worse as well. No longer a fan of GM. Or Ford for that matter. Mustang, GT, Lightning, ... that's it. Automakers just don't appeal to me anymore. I like just as many imports as i do domestics. They are all starting to look the same to me. O_o!

Quote

what are cops gonna use for RWD police cars...

heh, cops around here are starting to use Impalas *bleh*

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #11 – November 24, 2004, 04:48:52 PM

Quote from: Ifixyawata

I've heard rumors that it both will, and will NOT replace the Panther chassis, but at least there's an '05 Panther, so the sheer fact that they're coexisting is a good sign. However, I doubt this thing will replace the Taurus AND the CV. Besides... what are cops gonna use for RWD police cars... Dodge Magnums? Oh wait.... :(

Oh, the 500 will replace the Taurus. That's its purpose. The Taurus is on its way out next year, I believe.

Dodge has already released plans for a Magnum police interceptor.

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #12 – November 24, 2004, 04:51:43 PM

From what I gather, the F-body may return. I think it had something to do with a production deal with the Quebec government until like 2007. I think they made some kind of deal where they HAD to produce F-bodies there until a certain time period, but they don't wish to work with Quebec anymore. Not that I wanna see half of it return..

The new Impalas drive me nuts.. I had to explain it to my fiance a couple weeks back. FWD, back end that's more appropriate to a Biscayne.. but ugly nonetheless. In fact, I'd rather they have called it a Biscayne and not tarnish the Impala name with it. Aside from the Corvette, (which I don't really think of as a Chevy) the Impala is about the only name from Chevy that I have any respect for.

Anyway, back to the topic: None of the new cars that are affordable to the masses have any real appeal to me. I'd kill for a GT, but that's a supercar, not a daily driver. Considering one of my first cars was a '64 Galaxie 500 2-door, I'm not exactly wild that they brought the "500" bit back for some bland FWD/AWD.. blah, is all I can think to describe it as. Gimme a few more beers and I'll think of something more colorful. :D

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #13 – November 24, 2004, 04:56:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ifixyawata
Let's hope the 500 doesn't replace the CrownVic, though.

Originally Posted by Mercoug302
Word.

The 500 WILL not replace the crown vic it is the only RWD boat left in the top 3.ford wont give that up to a newcomer that hasent even proved itself....yet

Re: Something to ponder...

Reply #14 – November 24, 2004, 08:06:11 PM

Those of you who mock the 500's bland appearance need to remember one important thing: That car was brought about to compete with the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, the world's two bestselling cars. They are the bestselling cars despite the fact that they are probably two of the most boring appliances on the road. As good as the 300 and Magnum are they will not even put a noticeable dent in the marketshare of Honda and Toyota because most of the people buying them don't want something so flashy, and there is still the percieved safety of FWD (and the undisputable safety of AWD). Boring sells. Just look at what happened when Ford trued to kick things up a notch with the Taurus in '95 - the Taurus instantly lost its segment leader status as sales plummeted like a brick. After a few years Ford dialed back the styling and sales increased. People looking for cars in this segment value three things above all others: Safety, comfort and reliability. By basing the 500 on a well-proven chassis designed by a manufacturer well known for its reliable vehicles Ford has got a car with an established record before one was even sold. This will help it compete against the puppiesanese competitors. Volvo also has a reputation for safety, and AWD is just an added bonus, so now Ford is ready to do battle on two points. The automotive press is virtually unanimous in its praise for the interior comfort and driving dynamics of the 500, so now Ford is ready to do battle against the Accord/Camry on almost all fronts.

Really, the only place this new car falls on its face is power. It is not a Mustang so it doesn't have to look like one. Bland cars sell in this segment. That does not mean, however, that all models have to be bland. Ford could easily sell a base 3.5-liter, 250-horse, AWD version of the 500 to hundreds of thousands of customers while offering a limited production SVT version with the groceries to take on the Magnum and 300C. The prestige of the hot version of the 500 would certainly trickle down to the rest of the line as well, as evidenced by the fact that 9 out of every 10 300's I see do not have that telltale "C" on their insignias. Most are plebian 6-cyl models.

As for the 500 replacing the Panther, I wouldn't worry about it. You should worry about the panther disappearing, but for different reasons. The sad fact is that the only reason the Panther even still exists is because of the police market. Once the Magnum starts eating into the police market (and with a wagon body, hemi engine and available AWD it almost certainly will) the CV will cease to be profitable and will simply disappear. I work on cop cars for a living and I can tell you that the three number one complaints I hear from cops about the Crown Vic are lack of space (they are quite cramped for such a large car), lack of power (239 horsepower does not move 4500 pounds well) and poor winter driving dynamics (you can get one stuck on a small patch of ice). The new Magnum cop cars will cure all of those problems, and will almost certainly out-handle the CV as well, thanks to its IRS, unibody construction, relatively light weight and M-B designed chassis. The only thing the CV has going for it is its extremely tough, reliable reputation, a reputation that is also known of Mercedes vehicles. Mark my words: The Panther will go the way of the Caprice, with no replacement. Ford will roll over and play dead.

As for Lincoln, kiss it goodbye as you know it. Ford is not interested in competing with Lexus, Infiniti, BMW and Mercedes, at least not with Lincoln. They have Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin and Volvo for that. Lincoln will be positioned against the lower end of the luxury market and compete against the likes of Acura. Caddillac may end up with better, faster cars than Lincoln, but Ford will answer with better, faster Jaguars. In the meantime the FWD/AWD Lincolns will battle with the FWD/AWD Acuras. Get used to it, because unless FoMoCo has a major change of heart (which they won't), it is the future.