Gas Price crisis

Topic: Gas Price crisis (Read 3424 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #15 – August 24, 2005, 05:52:58 PM

Quote from: oldraven

Since when did Bush run OPEC?

It's not that he run's it, it's that he and Cheney have a vested interest in it. OPEC makes money, they make money.

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #16 – August 24, 2005, 06:14:17 PM

Quote from: nirvanagod

It's not that he run's it, it's that he and Cheney have a vested interest in it. OPEC makes money, they make money.

Howso?

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #17 – August 24, 2005, 06:58:22 PM

question about an earlier post from the quote where the guy was bitchin to stop us from bitchin. ( i read an atricle about this too ) if gas tachnically cost more back in the 80's due to inflation, then why didnt anybody raise a fit over it? i asked my parents about it and they didnt think it was expensive, nor did anybody complain about it. so then how are they sayin it was more expensive?

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #18 – August 24, 2005, 08:57:40 PM

Quote from: JeremyB

Howso?

They have known ties to big oil company's (stock i believe).

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #19 – August 24, 2005, 09:49:51 PM

Quote

if gas tachnically cost more back in the 80's due to inflation, then why didnt anybody raise a fit over it?

Oh, but they did raise a fit. They raised such a fit that the government created the CAFE. The automakers downsized their vehicles. And the puppiesanese made huge gains because of their small, efficient vehicles. I invite you to open any car magazine from 1975-1985 and find me a vehicle ad bragging about horsepower. You won't find any. It was all about MPG back then, as it will soon be again.

The S10. Ranger. D-50. All of the small puppies trucks. Jeep Cherokee, Bronco II, S10 Blazer. The downsized LTD, the smaller Caprice and Crown Vic. The small (by Lincoln standards) Mark VI. The Pinto, Mustang II, Vega, Gremlin, Chevette, Escort, Omni, the dreadful diesel Oldsmobiles and Tempos. And of course, all of the small puppiesanese cars. All of those vehicles owe their existence to the fuel crises in the 70's and 80's (that's plural - there was one in the 70's and one in the 80's).

Back in the late 70's, early 80's, a bag of potato chips cost a quarter and a bottle of pen 15e cost 15 cents. At the same time a gallon of gas approached a buck. Now the chips cost a buck (a fourfold increase) and the pop cost a buck and a half (ten times the early 80's cost!). Gasoline, meanwhile, costs a bit under three times what it did back then. Why doesn't anybody bitch about that?

Like it or not, the high energy prices are a direct result of overweight, gas-guzzling vehicles. Some of the recent spike also has to do with instability, but the main worries are instabilities in the supply, not political instabilities. When a hurricane hits the panhandle and shuts down a few refineries the price spikes. That's got nothing to do with Saddam Hussein. When a bunch of people use something it becomes more rare and desirable, and thus more valuable. Supply and demand. When the demand outstrips (or even comes close to matching) the supply, prices go up. When the supply becomes larger than the demand the prices go down.

We're currently sucking back the dino juice as fast as they can refine it, so the price is high. When it gets too expensive we'll start buying smaller, more efficient vehicles, and the price will go down. Just like what happened in the 70's and 80's. It'll never go down to a buck again, and likely won't go below two (after all, a large part of the recent increases would be considered by investors to be an "adjustment", meaning the commodity is suddenly changing value to reflect its true worth after being undervalued for a long time, just like when the internet bubble burst a few years ago and stocks dropped like a rock from their artificially high values to reflect their true, worthless values), but adjusted for inflation it will come down.

And as already pointed out in this thread, even at three bucks a gallon you guys still have it cheap compared to other industrialized countries. Even here in Canada, at over $3.50 a gallon, it's cheaper than France, England, Germany, etc...

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #20 – August 24, 2005, 10:38:32 PM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken

And as already pointed out in this thread, even at three bucks a gallon you guys still have it cheap compared to other industrialized countries. Even here in Canada, at over $3.50 a gallon, it's cheaper than France, England, Germany, etc...

I'd like to get clarification on something.
Isn't the higher price of gas in Canada/Europe due to taxes?

Quote from: nirvanagod

They have known ties to big oil company's (stock i believe).

What would you have Bush/Cheney do to alleviate the increase in crude oil prices?

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #21 – August 24, 2005, 10:48:18 PM

I dunno about Europe, but here in Nova Scotia the taxes break down as follows:

15 cents/liter federal taxes
10 cents/liter provincial taxes (these two taxes remain constant regardless of the price)
15% sales tax (this tax goes up & down with the price)

For simplicity's sake, let's say gas was 1.15/liter. Straight off, 15% of that price (or 15 cents) is sales tax, then another 25 cents in fixed taxes, so the actual pre-tax price would be about 75 cents/liter. At 3.8 liters to the US gallon, that's $2.85 CDN dollars. At 83 US cents to the CDN dollar our pre-tax price would be $2.36 per gallon.

The post tax price (using the same 1.15/liter example, 3.8 liters to the gallon and .83 exchange rate) would be $3.62, so we pay almost $1.30USD per gallon in taxes.

So how do US pre-tax prices compare to our $2.36 per gallon? I'd be curious to find out.

One other curiosity - I often hear Americans say that diesel is as or more expensive than gas. Here it's cheaper, and it's the one thing that the price actually varies from station to station. At Wilson's and Superstore it's 97.4 cents/liter, while at Irving and Petro Canada it's $1.10 (compared to $1.12 for gas).

We don't have many small, independent stations here - they're pretty much all major brands (Irving, Petro Canada, Esso [Exxon], Ultramar and Wilson's. There are no "Bob's gas" or anything like that. This also explains why the gas prices are all identical - the big companies work together to fix the price. When one puts the price up, they all do, and when one puts the price down they all do. No independents to differ from their prices, so they can fox them at whatever they want. This is why I'd like to see what the pre-tax prices are in areas that actually have competition.

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #22 – August 24, 2005, 11:05:13 PM

Federal Tax= $.18/gal

For Alabama (which probably has lower taxes on avg. than the rest of the US)
State Tax = $.12/gal
County Tax = $.01/gal-$.04/gal
City Tax = $.01/gal-$.04/gal

Where I live, County+City taxes are .03+.01 = $.04/gal

So, I pay a total of 34 cents/gal in taxes. The total cost of gasoline around here is $2.49-$2.59. That gives a pre-tax price of $2.15-2.25 per gallon.

So, here at least, there is a differential of ~15 cents/gal.

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #23 – August 24, 2005, 11:46:37 PM

Quote from: JeremyB

What would you have Bush/Cheney do to alleviate the increase in crude oil prices?

My comment was made in regards to the relationship of Bush to OPEC. Not that he is the cause or the answer. I just believe that Bush, due to his association to big oil, helps fuel the fire that allows companies to skyrocket crude oil prices. I'm merely stating a personal opinion interjected with what facts I have been told/heard/know. In all reality ThunderChicken is right about the fact we won't see the lower gas prices that we used to have. I really think that Bush could step in and do something to offset this rising cost such as, increasing minimum wage, or working to close the loopholes that said companies use for tax breaks. Not to mention, not giving these companies these taxbreaks and "incentives" outright. However the likelyhood of him doing such things is slim to none. But as I said, i'm really only speaking out of opinion. For all I know i'm totally wrong, just figured i'd throw in my :2c: .

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #24 – August 25, 2005, 12:57:41 AM

As quoted in the other gasoline thread, people are just going to have to adjust thier budget, less money toward frivolous shiznit like lottery tickets. Here in Ohio, they recently imposed a "sin tax" on cigarettes of about 80 cents a pack. Man, oh man did I ever hear it from the "public". At first, few realized it was a statewide change and promised on taking thier business elsewhere. Anyway, fast forward to last week, a guy comes in and buys the rock bottom cheap brand instead of his Marlboro's and says "if I had the extra money I'd still get Marlboro's but I have to buy the cheap ones instead" followed almost immediately by "I need some numbers for the Pick3". I thought this guy must not be listening to himself at all. If lotto tickets is a part of someone's budget, then that's not much of a budget at all. The money used for thier purchase should be extra, leftover cash. You know, the kind of stuff you keep in a jar at home. Ok... so maybe cigarettes are a bad example. After all, those are pretty god frivolous too. For someone to pay $4 to inhale carbon monoxide for 5 minutes 20 times... addiction is an ugly thing. Anyway, like the other thread said, these people bitching about gas prices probably have a carton of cigarettes and $100 worth of losing lottery tickets in thier car.. hmmm, there's 5 fill-ups right there.

Bottom line, $2.50 a gallon is very reasonably affordable for anyone, assuming they're not driving a car that exceeds thier means. A guy comes in today and puts $50 worth of diesel (just shy of 20 gallons) into his HUGE new Ford F-2/350. 4-door, 20" wheels, long-bed. I bet the ed thing weighs 4 tons. The truck had a taneau cover and no hitch. So, quite obviously it didn't seem like this was the truck he used to make his living. (can't haul shiznit with a hard cover on the bed and no hitch) I'm betting it was a "mid-life crisis/small pen 15 compensation" purchase. Single mom's with 2 kids driving Dodge Durango's and Expeditions. Wait... isn't that what a minivan's for? Or even *gasp* a mid-size wagon or even sedan? For them to be unhappy about paying so much would indicate that they need to re-evaluate thier choice in automobiles.

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #25 – August 25, 2005, 11:50:10 AM

Barring some major disruption to the oil supply, prices will probably fall over the next three weeks as the summer "driving season" winds down and demand for gas eases temporarily. However, even as that fades, the underlying supply constraint will come back to haunt prices every time either demand cycles up toward the production limit or an unexpected event disrupts even a small percentage of total production.

The economy is still growing, and demand for oil is still going to be higher this year than it was last year. Next year, when global demand has risen another two percent, the strain on our oil infrastructure will be that much worse. The buttstuffysts (notice root word of "buttstuff") will insist again the the problem is part of a cycle, not systematic, and will once again fail to see the emerging pattern.

So far, rising oil prices haven't brought on a recession in North America, but there are plenty of reasons to suspect that growth here must stall sooner or later.

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #26 – August 25, 2005, 12:27:17 PM

Quote

"mid-life crisis/small pen 15 compensation"

Quote

"buttstuff"

Quote

sucking back the dino juice

Yep, this thread proves it...there's just a lot of screwing going on.

The main problem for the U.S. is that there hasn't been a single new refinery built in America since the late 1970's. The government has made building a new one such a complicated procedure that it would take nearly a decade from start to finish. Therefore we must depend mostly on other countries to supply the oil. Meanwhile, if we have a tropical storm off the coast, or a war in the Middle East, or God forbid, Oprah raises an eyebrow--BAM! Up goes the price of gas. It is difficult for the average midwestern U.S. citizen to comprehend bearing that burden. Are they wrong? No. Is it justified? Yes and no. It is supply and demand, and people in the States are demanding large cars that burn a lot of gas. However, when pockets are being lined in front of our eyes, it becomes an issue of trust. Oil companies are about the only manufacturers in the U.S. that do not bear the burden of higher fuel costs. Everyone else is expected to. I think that is probably the main sticking point with most people.

BTW...if anyone saw the premiere episode of Morgan Spurlock's show "30 Days" on FX a few months ago (that's the guy that made "Supersize Me"), he and his fiancé tried to live on minimum wage for 30 days. They took public transportation, walked when possible, and still had to se change together to eat--and even then they went hungry. There are people living like this, in every town in America. Gas prices are absolutely a huge part of people's lives when they are the working poor. Let's not forget this just because we're not down at that level (yet...a few more years and we will be).

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #27 – August 25, 2005, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: Ifixyawata

Bottom line, $2.50 a gallon is very reasonably affordable for anyone, assuming they're not driving a car that exceeds thier means. A guy comes in today and puts $50 worth of diesel (just shy of 20 gallons) into his HUGE new Ford F-2/350. 4-door, 20" wheels, long-bed. I bet the ed thing weighs 4 tons. The truck had a taneau cover and no hitch. So, quite obviously it didn't seem like this was the truck he used to make his living. (can't haul shiznit with a hard cover on the bed and no hitch) I'm betting it was a "mid-life crisis/small pen 15 compensation" purchase. Single mom's with 2 kids driving Dodge Durango's and Expeditions. Wait... isn't that what a minivan's for? Or even *gasp* a mid-size wagon or even sedan? For them to be unhappy about paying so much would indicate that they need to re-evaluate thier choice in automobiles.

I do have problems buying gas at $2.50 a gallon.
I don't drink, smoke, gamble, hell I leave my house only to goto work or goto the store.

I live in a single income house, married, and have 3 kids. I make $18.00 and hour and after taxs, and insurance being deducted, and bills I end up with about $200 a week and haven't gone to the store yet to refill the fridge.

My cars are paid off, the house is paid off. and every time I look at my bill the rates keep going up. I don't know if this has anyhting to do with the price of gas or not but somebody is making a buck somewhere and it sure isn't me.

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #28 – August 25, 2005, 05:05:42 PM

Quote from: JeremyB

Howso?

Have you seen fahrenheit 911?

Quote from: ThunderChicken

Bob's gas

Lol we have those!

Re: Gas Price crisis

Reply #29 – August 25, 2005, 05:09:35 PM

Fed Tax 18.4 cents
Maryland Tax 23.5 cents
Total Tax 41.9 cents
Gas 2.68-.42=2.26 pre tax