5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #15 – November 15, 2013, 01:06:28 PM

Quote from: 1987tbird5.0;424438

Thank you for the input.
I'm not sure the 331 would be in the budget, but more torque would be nice.

well, lets look at that shall we? what is your engine build budget here? perhaps we can figure a way to get you to a stroke motor.

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I'm definitely planning on changing the firing order to the HO order. I've heard it is easier on the bearings, and that's what the maf mustang computers run.

that was the theory behind ford changing over when they brought out the 351w. the idea was to reduce the load on the front main bearing as the 289/302 had issues with spun front main bearings(ask me how i know

). the problem though is that it put extra load on the second main bearing, and 351ws had issues with spun second main bearings(again ask me how i know:evilgrin:). so change the firing order if you wish with a cam swap, but dont do it because it "Saves" the bearings, it doesnt. proper engine assembly procedures save bearings.

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I've heard that someone that knows what they are doing would benefit from a MegaSquirt setup, but I'm much more plug-n-play. lol

actually the megasquirt is fairly easy to tune for the amature. check out the link i posted for information, including install articles, and as i recall an actual forum to discuss megasquirt issues. but you might be surprised at how easy todays megasquirt systems are to tune. yes in the old days the original magesquirt system was like the early apple computer days, you bought a bag of parts and some instructions, and then sourced other parts from a list, and you assembled your own system, including building the box everything went in. and then you had to program it. then diyautotune stepped in, took the megasquirt ball and ran for the end zone. they started off just building ECUs so you didnt have to. all you had to do was build teh wiring harness and lay on the tune. today however, diyautotune now has wiring harnesses, sensors, comm cables, initial tunes, in fact they have pretty much all the fun little bits you need to make the system work.

i highly recommend that you check them out, even if you dont use their stuff, you will find all kinds of interesting information there.

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Ya, looking at the room around the engine, I went ahead and got some unequal length shorty headers to save the headache of trying to clear the tight spots on the driver side.

good choice. it will save a lot of headaches.

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #16 – November 16, 2013, 10:16:48 AM

Stroker kits are easy to come by on the Mustang forums from guys who have run out of cash, divorce, or some other event. I got my 331 kit (crank, pistons, rods, rings, and bearings) for $450 and I missed one for $400 the day before.

Darren

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #17 – November 16, 2013, 12:49:24 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;424465

Stroker kits are easy to come by on the Mustang forums from guys who have run out of cash, divorce, or some other event. I got my 331 kit (crank, pistons, rods, rings, and bearings) for $450 and I missed one for $400 the day before.

Darren

yep, just need to shop around and be willing to make deals. i will say however that if you do buy parts from someone who "never used them" check the parts over very carefully, and deal accordingly.

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #18 – November 16, 2013, 12:52:07 PM

aerocoupe, i really like your tbird, send it to me, i will give you $200 for it.

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #19 – November 16, 2013, 01:36:52 PM

LOL I think there are a few $00's missing

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #20 – November 16, 2013, 02:53:21 PM

lol what can i say, i am cheap.

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #21 – November 16, 2013, 11:37:11 PM

Quote from: rbohm;424443

well, lets look at that shall we? what is your engine build budget here? perhaps we can figure a way to get you to a stroke motor.

My budget is currently one piece at a time as I can afford it. Not the best plan, I know, but it's what I have.
And currently, I have an existing crank and rods that should work, since they are currently working in the car.
I'm also thinking I want to keep my current block to keep matching numbers, so not sure if stroking is the best idea.
There is always a risk buying a stroker kit sight unseen from an individual that doesn't live anywhere near me.
But $400 to $450 sounds like a great price! What is a reasonable price to get the block clearanced for a 331 or 347?

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #22 – November 16, 2013, 11:38:27 PM

Quote from: rbohm;424477

lol what can i say, i am cheap.

lol, me too

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #23 – November 17, 2013, 12:35:32 AM

Quote from: 1987tbird5.0;424487

My budget is currently one piece at a time as I can afford it. Not the best plan, I know, but it's what I have.
And currently, I have an existing crank and rods that should work, since they are currently working in the car.
I'm also thinking I want to keep my current block to keep matching numbers, so not sure if stroking is the best idea.
There is always a risk buying a stroker kit sight unseen from an individual that doesn't live anywhere near me.
But $400 to $450 sounds like a great price! What is a reasonable price to get the block clearanced for a 331 or 347?

you may not have to clearance the block. it depends on what rods you use as to whether you need to clearance the block or not. the only way to find out is to do a mock up assembly. and you dont need to buy a whole kit all at once, you can buy the parts piecemeal if you wish. the crank for instance can be sourced from here;

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-93023/overview/make/ford

this is but one example of the cranks that summit racing has. add to that the connecting rods and pistons later on as you can afford them. this way you get new parts instead of wondering if the parts you bought used are any good. once you have the rotating assembly, you want to mock assemble the bottom end, IE install the bearings, crank, and a rod and piston combo, you only need one, but you can do all eight if you wish, but it is more work. you will take that one rod and piston and install it in each cylinder, no rings to make it easy to get in and out. and the rotate the crank through at least one complete revolution by hand and note each place where the rod bolt either just clears or just touches the cylinder wall skirts. if you have at least .060" clearance, you dont need to do anything, less than that though and you need to take a die grinder and create the needed clearance. be sure to wash the block thoroughly when you are done.

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #24 – November 17, 2013, 12:37:09 AM

Quote from: 1987tbird5.0;424488

lol, me too

ok, i will give you your extra two zeros, in fact i will give you four of them $00200.00:rollin:

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #25 – November 17, 2013, 01:07:36 AM

Quote from: 1987tbird5.0;424147

My 5.0 has a lot of miles on it and is getting tired. :( I don't race it, but like to have something with more torque than stock.

I have an almost stock 5.0 in my 1987 Thunderbird Sport. It has a Professional Products intake and throttle body, I think it's 75mm. Other than that and a better coil, distributer module, and alternator, it's stock. Based on my reading on here and other places, I'm thinking of the following build, and would like to get some opinions.

I want to keep the numbers matching, so am having the stock block refreshed. New pistons, bearings, gaskets.
I want to use AFR 185 heads, so the need for the new pistons to clear the 2.02 intake valves.
I'm thinking of using a Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 258/266. Duration 258/266, lift .533/.544, lobe separation 112.
The firing order is currently the non-HO with Speed Density computer, so will have to change to MAF computer with HO firing order.
I'm thinking a MSD 6AL would be good insurance to make sure I don't run the engine over 6000 rpm so it will last longer.
I'm planning on re-using the existing intake, distributor, and as much as I can.

Questions:

1 Anybody running this setup?
2 What size injectors would you suggest for this setup?
3 Would the hassle of trying to get long tube headers to fit be worth the difference in power from shorty headers?
4 What important question(s) am I not asking?

What's the budget on this build? And what power numbers are you looking for? Your stock 5.0 now has 155hp and the afr 185's is going to have you in the 350+ range... That gonna cost some nice money making this transition.

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #26 – November 17, 2013, 08:27:56 AM

Quote from: Bob;424493

What's the budget on this build? And what power numbers are you looking for? Your stock 5.0 now has 155hp and the afr 185's is going to have you in the 350+ range... That gonna cost some nice money making this transition.

I don't have a specific max number in mind for horse power or torque. I mostly want a good torque curve with noticeably more power than stock from 1500 to 5500 rpm.
I'm hoping that simple subframe connectors and better control arms in the rear will be enough upgrades to handle whatever the power output is.

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #27 – November 17, 2013, 08:43:23 AM

Earlier year 302 engines where externally balanced with a 28 oz balancer.
Newer year 302 engines where externally balanced with a 50 oz balancer.
Is there a benefit to the heavier balancer, or the lighter balancer?

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #28 – November 17, 2013, 10:30:38 AM

You wanna make sure your flywheel/flex plate match whichever balancer you use(internal/external balanced)

5.0 Engine build questions

Reply #29 – November 17, 2013, 10:47:21 AM

Quote from: 1987tbird5.0;424501

Earlier year 302 engines where externally balanced with a 28 oz balancer.
Newer year 302 engines where externally balanced with a 50 oz balancer.
Is there a benefit to the heavier balancer, or the lighter balancer?

there is no real benefit with either balance system. ford made the change to improve fuel economy numbers with their bread and butter engine. the 50oz balance rotating assembly is a bit lighter, which means there is less mass to spin up to speed, which means less fuel to accelerate the engine to speed, etc.

in the end however for the street you will never feel the difference either in acceleration or in fuel economy numbers. however, in my opinion for the street you are better off with the 28oz balance factor as the cranks have the extra counterweights back and are thus less likely to have to deal with torsional flexing.