88 sport rebuild , need advice

Topic: 88 sport rebuild , need advice (Read 27372 times) previous topic - next topic

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #135 – July 27, 2013, 10:02:57 AM

so yesterday i discuss where my dmark is compare to the machine shops responsibility for providing parts.
He told me what he would order by way of parts which would be the long block rebuild kit.
it helped me understand now what i need to start buying.
during our conversation, he mentioned he's going to get .020 over pistons in the kit.
He reasoned with me that even though the block looks fine, he explained that the cylnider holes in a "production" enviroment especially during these years, are not as good as they could be. He said that when he gets done, it will be better than oem and equally cylindrical top/middle/bottom.

I was kinda lost because he was the one who said the block is fine, later he looked closer and mis-spoke i guess because he said that there is a very minor ridge but the block is fine, however, to get that ridge gone,, .020 willl do it.
so i just thought i would babble a little with that update.

i keep telling him im concerned with crashing pistons to valves and he's looking at me like im from mars,,, i worry too much i guess,, clay will tell me if i need to fly cut the pistons or not,,, i just saw the tool that rides in the head and i can do that myself., its pretty much a no brainer slow going low speed process that seems measureable and easy enough.

he said "now just so you know this kit comes with hyper-eutectic pistons.. i about shiznit!
I did tell him to get me what he felt would be the best bang for my buck and use his best judgment on what he would do if it were his low horse engine....
im a little concerned. without crank, the kit (his cost for short block) comes to about 370$, that will be my cost as well. the gapless top ring kit is an adder.

we are purchasing our parts based on the 1997 ford explorer as the reference vehicle so that for upper engine parts the gaskets all match up.
most all of these engine parts are fairly equal across the years but there are gasket differences, to which i will have to manage item by item for any 88 parts that we needs.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #136 – July 28, 2013, 10:46:21 AM

FYI...hyper pistons will outlast the stock block...so no worries...heck for that matter cast pistons would probably last...but hypers are usually only a little bit more $$ than cast, so people go with hypers... I always found that is was interesting that father Ford installed forged pistons in the 87-92 Mustang 5.0 engine...but changed to hypers in 1993...just not necessary, considering the limitations of the stock block...

Forged are nice but not necessary at that power level in a 302 sized engine...

Travis

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #137 – July 28, 2013, 12:47:16 PM

I am gonna jump in here from personal experience. Hyper pistons are cheap alternative for a street engine that doesn't see too much boost or nitrous. Now another good thing is no piston slap at startup due to very little thermal expansion. One MAJOR drawback is if you drop a valve your whole motor gets DESTROYED!! These pistons disintegrate if they make contact with a valve. I have had a couple modified sbc forged race engines destroy the valve train on one whole side of the motor in a qualifying run. Took the head off ground the tops of a couple pistons smooth put another head on and won the main. Done it twice now (not winning them main just similar engine failure). So what I am saying is choose your application wisely if this is going to just a daily driver under 400hp to wheels hyper is fine, but boost and nitrous are generally a no no. Go into an engine shop and ask for hyper pistons and tell em you wanna run a 200 shot of nitrous, see what they say... hopefully that wasn't too much of a hijack

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #138 – July 29, 2013, 10:31:59 AM

my mistake, i thought he was talking about domed on top pistons, which is not what came in the motor.
i suppose its my mistake, i thought all hypers were domed, these are flat with 4 reliefs.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #139 – August 07, 2013, 03:37:26 PM

Been awhile on this, any updates?

Darren

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #140 – August 07, 2013, 08:36:22 PM

Hyper pistons have more SILICONE CONTENT App 10%. The term hyper means ABOVE OR OVER. The pistons have a good thermal expansion rate and can be run TIGHTER IN THE BORE. This makes for better ring sealing and wear. It also is stronger than a stock cast piston. That is an aftermarket 390 Alloy Hyper not a stock Hyper piston. Forged is the best but has draw backs as well. piston rock and start up slap. For a low performance engine up to 350Hp Hyper pistons are fine.(dont let them PING) Once again do not use gap less rings. Use a good set of Chrome molly file fit to the cylinders with the second ring looser than the top. 16-18 TOP 20-22 second. Good luck

Also i dont think you will have Piston to valve clearance issues with 444L at the duration of the cam you are using. If the Piston to valve clearance is not sufficient. >.080 Intake and .100 exhaust have them notched by a machinist. Doing it at home is risky and not consistent by any means. Good luck

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #141 – August 09, 2013, 03:12:53 PM

Lots of good info on this thread. What's the problem with gap less rings? I have never wanted to try them, but curious as to what problem they cause.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #142 – August 10, 2013, 12:35:33 AM

You need a certain amount of BLOW by in the first position. Without this the second ring wont have back pressure behind the land to force the ring against the walls. This is a discussion that no one can win on. Some love gapless and some hate them. I hate them as they sre a gimmic and do not have any advantages only disadvantages as explained above Thanks

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #143 – August 19, 2013, 10:27:08 PM

engine build complete,,, a little update

son came home as planned and arrived on 10aug
machine shop had not yet started my engine work
15aug we finally get a block shop
16aug we finally get heads back from machine shop

Mason has to be at work on 17aug

wtf?

parts we installed=
bbk headers
CW mounts
scorpion roller rockers SCP3021BL 1.6ratio full roller
Comp springs 961-16 which gave us about 110lbs seat presure
seal power bearings pn 8-2600A
seal power pistons 20 over pn H816CP
melling stock oil pump pn M-68
Hastings 20over rings pn 2M 4346 020,,, measured about .016 end gap so when the motor gets hot, im assuming that gap will close prudy close to .002
86MK7 ho SD eec
HO cam
86MK7 19lb injectors
88MK7 fuel pump
lots of gaskets from felpro and other stuff
96 explorer block/crank/upper/lower
BBK TB and spacer

**************I did not use the Explorer oil cooler*** i installed the bung for an FL1A filter instead.

so nuff crying about how well i planned this out and plans fell through the pits...... here is an engine update.

installed roller rockers and dialed each one in, each set of valves stayed slightly open when torqued to 20ft lbs.
I began to use the engine to bleed down the explorer lifters i used by rotating the engine a little at a time and the valves began to set.
Before i was able to blow air with a hose and out the intake/exh ports when each valve was on the base circle of the cam
now all is well and valves are seating... lifters must've been really locked up and full of oil.
motor went in fine and together but with a drill i could not get any oil to the top and was reluctant to drop it in but i did.
started up motor but top end sounded noisey
I shut down inside of 15 seconds, there is still no oil to the top.
Today i took a break, got my 20th coug ready to hand over to my son so he can go back to work,, he got an extra day off plus im not off my vacation week.

last night I took the oil filter off and turned the dizzy shaft with a drill,,, oil shot across the engine bay,, pump works.
Last night i pulled the motor off the transmission and disconnected the very least to raise the motor up and get the oil pan off.
swapped out oil pump for the hell of it, removed the exlorer lifters, removed the scorpion rockers, replaced these two items with the ones in my son's running tbird original engine... still no oil to the top of the motor by using a drill.

Today went to the machine shop, thier thoughts are exacly mine, there must be a blockage down near the downstream side of the oil filter galley.
I will be poking at those ports as soon as i get this thing back on a stand, from what i can tell, i will be better off taking all the things off the front of the motor to see this anyway since this galley leads out to the front edge of the crank ,, which means the timing cover needs to come of.

if there was an oil galley plug missing, oil would be pumping onto the floor and that is not happening.

I will also spin the dizzy shaft up top with help from my youngest son and see if i can see oil falling out from around the crank.
if i see none, its certainly a clog as the oil travels from the filter journal out to the engine oil galleys.\

at this point, i need to find the problem but if it is a clog, i need to figure out a way to present my findings to the machine shop without making an enemy... we are human after all but to tell you the truth, this shop really ruined my time i wanted to spend with my son doing this all week long, instead he / I had to rush this. we met our goal of putting it together in time for him to make it to work but the motor failed.
overall im disappointed but im sure ill figure it out with some help here and brainstroming from all of you as well,,, thanks for the calls and thoughts... this is a tough one to muddle through.
the following is several in process pics

ill keep you all posted.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #144 – August 19, 2013, 10:30:19 PM

pics set 1

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #145 – August 19, 2013, 10:32:03 PM

pics set 2

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #146 – August 19, 2013, 10:33:15 PM

pics set 3

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #147 – August 19, 2013, 10:34:22 PM

pics set 4

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #148 – August 19, 2013, 10:35:16 PM

pics set 5

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #149 – August 19, 2013, 10:40:10 PM

Oil flows from the main feed holes to the saddles and into the cam bearings via a slotted main bearing. At the back of the block, you will find a core plug (freeze plug) under the intake. One hole goes nearly straight down. The other is drilled at an angle. The one that goes straight down intersects all the way down to the main galley. Both of these holes intersect the lifter galleys. Lifters are oiled through these galleys and of course the springs and rockers are oiled through the push rods.