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88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #120 –
Jay why in the world would you install those bearings waste all that money and have a setup that is totally not needed with the cam you are running. These bearings came about from guys running HIGH SPRING PRESSURES and HIGH RPM ENGINES. Basically they are for extremely high RPM engines. Pro stock guys found out that they transmitted abnormal transit vibrations through the block and engines failed. They solved some of the cam bearing spinning issues but that is about it. I highly doubt you will spin a cam bearing in your life They also have to be installed properly and the block has to be machined. Research has proven that these bearings bleed to much oil off the oil system and need restrictor's in some cases.  In my view they have less load capacity then a BABIT BEARING but are sometimes needed for crazy cams in the high lift areas. Do the math on the contact area they have less contact area but naturally roll easier to some extent just my logic on them. Not many guys run them and for what it costs and with a cam at 444 LIFT at the valve those bearings are NOT NEEDED. So unless you are building a race engine with extremely high lift and heavy valve train springs FORGET THOSE BEARINGS. They suck big time for a street engine. Just me!!
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #121 –
some of the con's are off the list because i the engine wont make those rpm's.

the oil flow con your talking about would be offset with a high volume pump in this small motor  but i was not planning one.

this would reduce additional friction but again, i was considering this but you might be surprised the price i was getting didnt hurt the budget.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #122 –
I'm with Tom on needle bearings for the cam.  It's not necessary.  On the other hand, If I were putting a motor together in an expensive aftermarket block, I might use them, just because with a block like that there are higher limits, and what I might start as a mild build could become much less so at a later time.  In your case, your block will split in half long before you're making enough power to justify something like that.

And I HAVE had a cam bearing spin.  It was in the 87 HO I was running before I got this Explorer engine.  That's why I had to get my HO2 cam from a coworker; the one I had was wiped. (HO vs HO2 = HO2 has an additional 10 degrees exhaust duration at the same lift, used in HO engine after 90)

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #123 –
First off JAY you NEED LEARNIN!!! NEVER USE A HIGH VOLUME OR PRESSURE PUMP ON ANYTHING. Foe i am an old DUDE dun many engines and have never seen a spun cam bearing. Not to say it cant happen just i have never see one. In the light of things how many cam bearings have you actuallyu seen that were even BAD!!! Naturally you change them that is a no brainer but they in all regards do not have much of a load on them and the cam spins Half the RPM of the engine. Very little load at best.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #124 –
With the needle bearings I believe you have to get a cam that has the correct OD journals for the bearings.  This would mean the HO cam would have to be ground or a different cam chosen.  I am running spring pressures of 135 psig closed and 395 psig open and use standard bearings.  The frictional loss that the needle bearings provide is something that all motor heads jump on as we see it as GOOD stuff.  In our cases it is pretty much just shiney stuff that really won't make the motor perform any better.  Spend your hard earned $$$ on a different cam (custom ground by Ed Curtis is about $300) or contact Comp Cams hotline and they can pick a really good off the shelf cam for you.

Your combo is really similiar to what I ran in my Coupe with the first 306 which had some mildly ported 1969 351W DOZZ heads.  I ran a Comp Cam that had a 0.512 lift with 1.6 rockers and the duration was split to favor the shiznitty exhaust ports even though we opened them up.  The car made 251 rwhp / 289 ft-lbs of torque on a Mustang Dyno so it was not too shabby with the T-5 in it.  Anyhow, enough of my reminiscing about the past and on with your build man!

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #125 –
tom, i dont do this everyday, this is only my 9th motor ive ever done, and some small equipment,
I did back off the high volume oil pump as i stated earlier in my parts list i posted,,
the needle cam bearing i say again i was thinking about doing.,, thats all.

2.5L GM 1983,, pretty  good motor if you ask me other than the plastic timing gear to gear
3.8L v6 ford
I-6 plym duster
351M Ford 1977 cougar
302 1988 ford bronco
350 chevy x 2 in camaro mid 80s
460 in a log truck

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #126 –
Question again,,

the 1997 ford explorer timing cover is autozone pn 500302T by Pioneer
the 1988 ford tunderbird timing cover is autozone pn 500302L by Pioneer

to keep the 1988 water pump on this car while using the 1997 ford explorer block, will the 88 timing cover fit and work correctly?

anyone know?

the explorer timing cover did not have the "allen head" bolts on the timing cover along the lower

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #128 –
thanks, glad you had a first go at the explorer swap,, it helps greatly,, just trying to be prepared.
we busted the explorer cover, will order bird cover and have it on standby incase we break the bird one also.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #129 –
so i am shaving my GT40 heads approx .020 off, given you reduce the chamber CC by about 4cc per .005''  (just a guesstimate) and i am wondering if i am on the "cuff" of needing to consider push rod length and 1.7roller rockers.
im thinking no but any thoughts?
cutting heads to get them closer to the cobra specs since the valves are the same on either head

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #130 –
They make a shim kit for pedestal roller rockers so they can be adjusted to obtain proper valve train geometry with the stock pushrods. Pick a kit up and if you need to use a shim to adjust the valve train you'll be happy you have it. You may or may not need it but because you're having the heads milled I would advise picking up the kit. The kit is cheap and can be found at most major parts houses: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=786
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #131 –
With pedestal rockers the geometry does not change when milling. Only the lifter PRE LOAD. And with a .020 cut he is still in FORD SPECKS. If he shims the pedestals he changes everything. Getting a valve job changes the geometry very slightly. But having a Predetermined distance of the pedestal that does nothing for geometry of the valves. He will not need to change the push-rods but if he wants to adjust the lifter PRE-LOAD he needs to choose a different push rod. SHORTER. Depending on the amount of PRE-LOAD he wants.

:hick::mullet::burnout:
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #132 –
Quote from: TOM Renzo;419127
With pedestal rockers the geometry does not change when milling. Only the lifter PRE LOAD. And with a .020 cut he is still in FORD SPECKS. If he shims the pedestals he changes everything. Getting a valve job changes the geometry very slightly. But having a Predetermined distance of the pedestal that does nothing for geometry of the valves. He will not need to change the push-rods but if he wants to adjust the lifter PRE-LOAD he needs to choose a different push rod. SHORTER. Depending on the amount of PRE-LOAD he wants.

:hick::mullet::burnout:


Yep I meant lifter pre-load not geometry. Thanks for the correction. But the shim kit can be used to change the lifter preload. If an engine has the stock length pushrods and too much preload with roller rockers the shims will allow the user to essentially have a shorter pushrod. This video gives and explanation of how to adjust the pedestal style rockers and how the shims come into play:
[video=youtube;z8NW0R0kDiY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8NW0R0kDiY[/video]
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #133 –
ive seen this done a few ways,, and following firing order "if" your pushrod spins "after" you have torqued the rockers but there is not up and down play then things should be just fine.
his method really buttons up any possible loose ends however i am thinking that no two motors will ever yeild the same preload results with using your degrees of rotation of your torque wrench as the reference.,, couple that with his perception of "feel" on the push rod binding as well.

if my push rod "spin" "feels" the same across the whole motor as i dial the crank, but has no up and down play, all things lubrication wise and valves fully seating should be good to go.

thoughts?

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #134 –
OK lets clear this UP!!!

Push rod length is push rod length. Best dun with an adjustable push rod. Use a push rod checker and log in its overall length on every valve then add the amount of PRE-LOAD you want. Then make sure you use a push rod of the correct Size if available. So for arguments sake when i build an LS Motor i measure the checker at lets say 7.360 Inches. I would then want lets say .040 Pre-load. So i would use a push rod length of 7.400. No two positions will be the same and they do not need to be the same. Reason being pre-load is anywhere from ..030-.080. So basically it does not matter. But having over .080 and you will have issues. So when checking length use a checker and this way you can determine the pre-load. Remember any time you shim the pedestal you change the Geometry. But this may be the only way you can get the proper PRE-LOAD if variousle length push rods are not available


http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp%20Cams/249/7702-1/10002/-1?CT=999

You can also have custom length rods made!!

http://www.cranecams.com/userfiles/file/304-310.pdf

But your setup will take a stock Push rod even with a .020 MILL. BUT CHECK IT AND CHECK IT CORRECTLY with a modified lifter and an adjustable push rod for accuracy. You can also use a stock un modified lifter as well but this takes a certin feel when rotation the push rod with your fingers.

Simply put install a stock push rod and spin it while tightening the rocker bolt. Once the push rod shows the slightest resistance with ZERO lash you can check the PRE LOAD by turning down the rest of the way. If it turns down 1/4 - 3/4 TURN then stops you are golden.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!