It's Jiggly!

Topic: It's Jiggly! (Read 3553 times) previous topic - next topic

It's Jiggly!

June 10, 2013, 09:24:58 AM

So, my turbo coupe likes to jiggle down the road at high speeds. I've just put in a brand new steering rack, some brand new tie-rod ends, and I have a fresh alignment courtesy of les schwab. The only thing I can thing of is that my lug nuts are old and stripped and I can't get them uniformly tightened to my satisfaction. Would the lug nuts really make that much of a difference? Or is there something else wrong entirely?

It's Jiggly!

Reply #1 – June 10, 2013, 10:19:19 AM

Quote from: 88TC4lyfe;416838

So,The only thing I can thing of is that my lug nuts are old and stripped and I can't get them uniformly tightened to my satisfaction.

What do you mean..... You can't get them tight??

Quote from: 88TC4lyfe;416838

Would the lug nuts really make that much of a difference? Or is there something else wrong entirely?

I would venture a guess that if all else is "good" then maybe have your wheels/tires checked, balance, trueness (meaning s wheel isn't slightly bent) and/or if a tire is out of round.

Also you said "Jiggly" does the wheel move back and forth?? Does this happen ALL the time or at certain speeds?? or just when braking??

just my .02

It's Jiggly!

Reply #2 – June 10, 2013, 11:42:13 AM

Bearings, balljoints, struts, strut mounts, rotors/drums, tires, wheels, shocks, rear control arm bushings, front control arm bushings, sway bar end links.

If any of those are bad, or worn, they'll contribute to the issue.

As far as an alignment, you wasted your time and money if your balljoints are bad. Hopefully they're not though.
If you've got issues with your lug nuts, I'd park the car until you can get that resolved.

It's Jiggly!

Reply #3 – June 10, 2013, 12:05:42 PM

Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;416842

If you've got issues with your lug nuts, I'd park the car until you can get that resolved.

Totally

It's Jiggly!

Reply #4 – June 11, 2013, 08:32:14 PM

Quote from: 1BadBird;416839

What do you mean..... You can't get them tight??

I would venture a guess that if all else is "good" then maybe have your wheels/tires checked, balance, trueness (meaning s wheel isn't slightly bent) and/or if a tire is out of round.

Also you said "Jiggly" does the wheel move back and forth?? Does this happen ALL the time or at certain speeds?? or just when braking??

just my .02

I can get them fairly tight but I cant get them all uniformly tightened. So nut#1 might be at 50ftlbs while #2 may be 68ftlbs. So I was wondering if a bit of variation would cause this. It doesn't jiggle much and the steering wheel itself doesn't move but I can feel it in the steering wheel. It only jiggles at around 70mph and not at all at lower speeds.

It's Jiggly!

Reply #5 – June 11, 2013, 08:33:38 PM

Otherwise I take care of my car, It's got fresh rotors, good balanced tires, good suspension (eibach's). So besides the lugnut question i'm a little stumped lol

It's Jiggly!

Reply #6 – June 11, 2013, 08:43:00 PM

Need a torque wrench...

Are your bearings up to snuff?

It's Jiggly!

Reply #7 – June 11, 2013, 10:14:02 PM

Quote from: 88TC4lyfe;416928

I can get them fairly tight but I cant get them all uniformly tightened. So nut#1 might be at 50ftlbs while #2 may be 68ftlbs. So I was wondering if a bit of variation would cause this. It doesn't jiggle much and the steering wheel itself doesn't move but I can feel it in the steering wheel. It only jiggles at around 70mph and not at all at lower speeds.

If by chance you have those nuts set at this low a torque value you have sereyous issues and i strongly suggest not driving that car. I am willing to bet you have a tire issue with a separated cord . Other than that you better find out why those lugs are not tightening up. By chance do you have rear discs and 4 lugs??? If so and you have thick hub rotors better change out those lugs. They will be to short with replacement thick hubs. If you have a 4 lug car. Normally those lugs are torqued to 100 FT/LBS. And i always use a TORQUE WRENCH. No other way in my book and i always torque in the proper sequence.

Note those lugs are either stretching stripping or the rim is not seating properly. What kind of rims are they ???? Something is messed up and better be checked out properly. Loosing a wheel at 70 MPH is no JOKE!!!

:hick:

http://www.discounttire.com/infoCenter/infoWheelTorque.html

It's Jiggly!

Reply #8 – June 11, 2013, 10:59:03 PM

^ That. X 1,000.

It's Jiggly!

Reply #9 – June 11, 2013, 11:44:45 PM

What wheels? What size/type tires? What alignment specs?

You say it gets "jiggly" at 70mph. I'm calling it an alignment issue, or perhaps a front wheel bearing issue (seeing as you said you have "fresh rotors"). When you jack the front wheel off the ground, can you move it? Does it feel loose?

Unless you have some oddball wheels on there, and can't tell a wrench from a flower pot, I doubt it's a lug nut issue. They would have to be finger tight and loose to falling off to cause an issue at speed.

Give us the full information. Jiggly at 70 mph doesn't tell us much.

It's Jiggly!

Reply #10 – June 12, 2013, 06:52:51 AM

I've got a 2 for 1 deal for you. Pull the wheels, swap out ALL the studs and nuts, and then rotate the tires. This way, you (and we) know that the car is safe, AND you eliminate the possibility of your instability being linked to a tire. Drive it, rotate, drive it again. If the feel changes and the shimmy moves, you'll know you've found the culprit. If you drive it after studs and nuts and it's gone, then you still win.

Speaking of wheel studs that stretch and then strip, once you've replaced them, DON'T EVER LUBE THEM IN ANY WAY. Clean and dry is how they were meant to operate. When you lube a bolt what happens? For the same torque, the fastener will turn more because you eliminate friction in the threads. If you can turn it more before target torque, something has to give. Most times the stud stretches a little bit, you don't want this, because it's not like the studs are growing when you do this. That extra lengthening causes the stud to get thinner in the middle, in getting thinner, the size of the stud and threads gets narrower little by little until one day a lug nut jumps, spins and strips out. Then you have to get the torch next to somebody's nice wheels.

I went to career-tech in high school, and this is second day stuff. Right after gruesome safety videos. Same story when I got to college.

It's Jiggly!

Reply #11 – June 12, 2013, 08:19:08 AM

If the rotors on the front are "fresh", the studs should be as well.

I still find it highly unlikely that lugnuts/studs are his issue, unless someone completely ham-fisted a wheel install. I guess you'd be surprised at what can happen, though.

I'll wait for some answers to the questions I asked before I add any more "guesses" as to the culprit.

It's Jiggly!

Reply #12 – June 13, 2013, 12:49:05 AM

Thanks for everybody's responses! I went and bought myself some brand new lugnuts and a torque wrench. All I did was put em on and torque them properly and everything's peachy. It's just crazy how such a minor thing can make such a major difference

It's Jiggly!

Reply #13 – June 13, 2013, 05:57:11 AM

I have to disagree with FOE to an extent on his lube comment on lugs.

First thing is when a lug is replaced on a most time you use a lug nut installed backwards and a stack of washers and lube it generously. Then you tighten the nut to pull it in the . I have dun this hundreds of times . This makes it easy to install and not over torque it while it is being pulled in to the . Now just for the record i have a tool that does this and does not use the threads.

So what Foe is saying is a lubed lug is most always over tightened. Well that is true 90% of the time. Tell me how many mechanics install wheels without an impact gun??? I never use them to install but i use them to remove. Now some will say they use TORQUE STICKS!!!! Better but still can fracture a stud. So here is what i think about this. My bottle of NAPA never seize says it can be used on lug nuts. So what the HECK !!!! What i do is lube the stud with a small dab of white lube not on the tapered part of the nut. This is how i believe is the best way. Now some manufacturers say they are to be installed dry!!! That is a fact. But that is with a TORQUE WRENCH and proper torque pattern and the stud and nut is brand new . So how many lug nuts are over tightened in this world. Most likely 90% of them as basically no one uses a torque wrench. I do because i am nuts. But every bolt and fastener has a torque spread. And when designed is not so at the yield point as with lets say head bolts. So should we use TTY for installing lug nuts. Not really but that would be the ultimate. So in my thinking a dab of never seize or white lube on the stud is something i do not think is a issue. Now if only those tire shops would buy a TORQUE WRENCH!!!

NOTE every aluminum wheel should be re-torqued after driving 50 miles or so. Do we do this. I DO!!! just something to think about!!!

NOTE on the over the road trucks hub pilot and stud pilot i use the 3/4 impact. No choice here.

NOTE when lugs are new some or most have a factory coating that wears off quite fast. That is why they are installed DRY!!

It's Jiggly!

Reply #14 – June 13, 2013, 06:09:25 AM

Quote from: 88TC4lyfe;416997

Thanks for everybody's responses! I went and bought myself some brand new lugnuts and a torque wrench. All I did was put em on and torque them properly and everything's peachy. It's just crazy how such a minor thing can make such a major difference

It seems that you had a wheel that was not seated properly. Or you swapped the tires and wheels to different sides of the car as FOE points out you had an issue with a rim or tire. I knew when you said you had an issue with tightening the lugs either the rims centering hole or the hub was corroded or both. A wheel should be installed and not have to be forced on to the hub. And the back side of the rim the mounting side should be free of corrosion and rust. I always use never seize on hubs with aluminum or steel rims. And we also see steel rims that need to be lightly dressed to correct a hub seizure. I have went on many a ROAD CALL where the rims were seized to the hub. This with either alloy or steel wheels. Anti seize is something i always use on axle hubs and rim centers. If it is wrong i stand corrected. Been doing it for many many years.