Just my luck...

Topic: Just my luck... (Read 2748 times) previous topic - next topic

Just my luck...

April 22, 2013, 12:20:12 AM

I have 96 cutlass supreme with a 3.4 DOHC that I use for work and road trips. It has high miles and I got for 900 bucks. I bought it on an impulse cause I was broke down didn't want to miss a day of work waiting for the bus the next day. I got 20K km on it since I bought it, put new tires and brakes, new fuel tank, fuel pump sending unit, etc. It needs lifters also, and I am waiting for them to arrive. I got new plugs and wires also just waiting on lifters to arrive to put em on. So anyways the car starts losing power, like it is running out of fuel or spark.

I thought it was a faulty fuel pump at first, cause it has happened before to me. Then I figured maybe fuel pressure regulator, but fuel pressure checked out. So then I am thinking coils or icm module. All checks out. So I take the car into my friends shop for a scan, and I said just scan and diagnose the problem if you can. He says sure it'll be $59.99 for a scan, I'm like yeah its worth it!

Well I go to pick up the car and the mechanic is on a road test, I am thinking great he is driving it looking for codes. Then this kid comes up to me here are your plugs they are worn out. I am like ok, I guess that is fine long as the problem is fixed.

Well the mechanic comes back and gets me in the shop and says the car is junk it won't run much longer, so I listen and I look at him, that is just lifter tick I got new ones coming been running the car like that for 6 months. So apparently the problem is so bad the car barely moves. I go to the office to pay the bill and bang $422 for changing plugs and scanning the car. So I say I told you not to take anything apart just to scan the car and do a road test. Then the mechanic says he thought that would fix it. So whatever I pay the bill limp the car home, and think about what just happened.

I start looking at the scan,

transmission component slipping (Worn out valve body, to high line pressure and it throws codes, common problem)

O2 Sensor short or malfunction (I took the cat out so that is that)

Knock sensor short or malfunction (not sure ordered new one just in case)

EGR pintle location error (unplugged for more part throttle power)

I start to think about what is going on with the car and realize the knock sensor is probably the culprit so I get a new, and I couldn't wait any longer, take the whole upper manifold off, coil packs, rear egr piping and start feeling around the worst place on earth to put a knock sensor only to find it is unplugged! I can't feel or see the pigtail ANYWHERE! So now I got one or two options, take the rear head off or take the right tire off, axle half, alternator and hope I can see or reach it better. I don't know does anyone have any experience with these horrible creations that are the worst things to work on I have ever seen....I am all ears as my chiltons manual sucks and is missing info on the 3.4 dohc

Just my luck...

Reply #1 – April 22, 2013, 10:39:27 PM

Well I got the cv axle pulled, alternator out and still can't find the stupid wire. Holy that is frustrating, the thing just disappeared. Which kinda makes sense cause this happened all of a sudden and knock sensor connector still is clean inside so it recently came off. Wondering if it wrapped around the cv somehow and twisted off??? It is about the same frustration as working on a 3000gt vr4 or those pesky early Taurus shos with the Yamaha motor crammed in

Just my luck...

Reply #2 – April 23, 2013, 12:02:27 AM

A friend of mine one time crammed a 3.4 from a newer (think 2000-ish) Monte into his 89 Cavalier Z24. It ran like a top, and was pretty fast for what it was, until the intake gaskets let go. He had a hell of a time with it, meanwhile my '88 Bird with the 3.8 (the white one that caught fire) kept on running, no matter how hard I abused it.

Something about cramming 10 pounds of shiznit into a five pound sack comes to mind. 5.0s and such have their problems, but by God you can work on and diagnose most problems with a little experience, a code puller, and a meter.

Good luck with it, hope you get it sorted out...we're down to one vehicle again here...but it wont be long before I'll be scooting around with yet another Ford product...5.0 of course.

Just my luck...

Reply #3 – April 24, 2013, 03:27:49 AM

I Would do a timing belt on the 3.4 DOHC in that ole W-body while you have it down that far!! Those are good cars. I had a '96 Cutlass Supreme SL 2 door with the 3100 V6. Yeah, I read and heard how much there is to those DOHC motors in those engine bays. Good luck to you!

Just my luck...

Reply #4 – April 24, 2013, 07:28:35 AM

I was planning on doing the timing belter, lifters, and cv axles anyways, just sooner than later I guess..

Just my luck...

Reply #5 – April 24, 2013, 08:25:09 PM

Looks like I will be doing both cv axles, lifters, retiming cams, timing belt, ball joints, some bushings, serpentine belt, trans fluid and filter and hopefully she goes til 300,000.

Just my luck...

Reply #6 – April 24, 2013, 08:45:05 PM

Ok time to ask questions???

There are 2 KNOCK sensors on this engine

3.4 DOHC VIN X

Which one is your issue as you did not mention what codes you have???? You said the one behind the alt so i am assuming that is the one you are concerned about.

So with that here is the info

They are on the side of the block on both sides and here is the colors and PIN OUT

Bank 1 496 63 C2 DK/BLU
Bank 2 1876 64 C2 LT/BLU

Use a tracer tone to find the wiring and a pickup probe.(that is unless it is grounded tone wont pass through the wire) Do this from the ECM and you will find the wire in 2 seconds. Or rewire a new wire direct from the ECM. Punching's above. Good Luck!!

Hope this helps.!!!

Note removing the cat will set an SES light and a PO420 code. So pull codes and go from there.

UN PLUGGING the EGR is a definite SES light with a 1404. And a shorted 02 is another issue. A shorted knock sensor is a clear indication the car has wiring issues because as you posted there is no wire on the sensor. As far as your mechanic friend goes!!! Well he should be stacking shelves in a DELI. Why change plugs when you have all these sensor codes. Just me but the guy is clueless. Look for a burnt harness or a smashed one that is grounding those sensors. It is not brain surgery to figure that 2 of them show ground codes and one does not even have a wire hooked to it. Good luck

Just my luck...

Reply #7 – April 24, 2013, 11:14:23 PM

I FINALLY found the wire today. It was tucked under the alternator cooling duct. It was pinched pretty good, had to jack the oil pan a little to pull it out. Plugged it in and called it a day, I can't even get a camera in there to take a picture. How it got pulled out who knows. Gonna go snap some pics so you can see just what I had to do just to plug a stupid wire back in. Got the alternator back in place just gotta tighten the last bolt.

Just my luck...

Reply #8 – April 24, 2013, 11:35:17 PM

This is the engine with upper intake, coils, icm module and the egr piping unbolted so I can get my hand back there. I couldn't see anything behind the block, I had to go by feel to find the knock sensor using a new one as a reference. Soon as I found it I knew it was unplugged and that is probably the power loss and mileage problem.

Tom, I believe the later 3.4s only had one knock sensor as the parts guy said there's only one, I too thought there was 2 of em.

Just my luck...

Reply #9 – April 24, 2013, 11:36:35 PM

Best pic I could get behind the block the knock sensor is right under the rear exhaust manifold. The wire was wedged under that rubber thing that I had to rip to get the wire free

Just my luck...

Reply #10 – April 24, 2013, 11:43:53 PM

The knock sensor is right behind the alternator and the wire was right behind and under that! There was no way I could have gotten the wire from the top side. All that work just to go plink and problem solved.

Just my luck...

Reply #11 – April 25, 2013, 01:37:04 AM

love my gigantic rwd engine bay.

Just my luck...

Reply #12 – April 25, 2013, 05:35:32 AM

The 1997 has ONE not the 1996. That is why i included the Vin verification.
But you clearly posted the one next to the ALT. That is in fact the only one on the 1997 or late production 1996 engine.

Also i am a little confused at how your mechanic could justify a $420.00 Dollar bill for a plug change and a scan ????????????

Something does not make sense here. You have the engine torn down so you could have dun the plugs yourself. Did you sign a work order authorizing the repair??? So why the outrageous BILL??? The front plugs are a given. And clearly you are capable of changing the rear ones yourself. Also what about the other codes and what are you going to do with the 420 Code you will be getting with the cat removed??? And the EGR code because you disconnected it. That will have to be connected and the code cleared as well. You also have an O2 code. If it is a PRE-O2 you have to address that or the engine will not run correctly.

(QUOTE)
transmission component slipping (Worn out valve body, to high line pressure and it throws codes, common problem)

This is a sereyous code as the transmission is slipping and increasing the LINE PRESSURE TO COMPENSATE !!!!!!. Not a common code a definate issue with the tranny.

I guess i am missing something here???

NOTE a RE-FLASH is necessary for the PINTEL code to be ADDRESSED. That can also be fixed by shimming the top sensor of the EGR valve. I have been placing a small piece of SEAT TAPE on the plunger of the EGR positioner to fool the ECM in thinking the EGR valve is set correctly. This can be DUN by removing the positioner sensor from the valve and shimming it . Either way works.

Just my luck...

Reply #13 – April 25, 2013, 07:56:05 AM

So I was right about the car having 2 knock sensors...My car is an x vin car with the smaller 33m lifters which is a later 96 if I am not mistaken. It was just a money grab from my mechanic, who I am never going back to. Who changes plugs, when the car sounds like it about kick the bucket??? Especially when I said not to, cause I have a set sitting on the back seat that I am waiting for my lifters to arrive to do em both at once!!! I have already driven 20,000km with the transmission like this, I'm gonna drive it till it don't move then change the trans. I don't notice any slipping at when I am driving, gonna change the fluid and filter and see if that helps, I really am not worried about, there are a ton of these in the junk yard. Not like my cougar where it is the only fox bodied cougar I have ever seen! I will try and find a copy of my bill and scan it so you can see exactly what codes were pulled after work. I only brought the car in to get scanned in the first place so I could know what the problems were and what needed to be fixed. I fix everything myself most of the time.

Tom can I remove egr and block that junk off and still trick it into thinking it is working? The car runs noticeably better with egr unplugged.

Just my luck...

Reply #14 – April 25, 2013, 09:26:03 AM

god how I hate that motor! Those dohc 3.4's are such a pain to work on