MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #15 – April 05, 2013, 10:05:43 AM Aerocoupe, I really enjoyed the links you sent me! Now I have a better idea what the difference is between mass air and speed density. So, if I'm guessing right, the car came with MAF, then when he bought the upper plenum and EEC from the "88" Mustang it was speed density and it looks like he is going to convert it back. The reason I say that is he said he needs a MAF harness adapter. I'm sure glad he figured this out before I did. This Cougar is the only car I own with a computer, all my 40's-50's cars, truck, jeep don't have it. So, it's been like stepping off a cliff with this one. I had better learn to fly before I hit the ground. Jimmi and I have been friends for several years, I really like the work he's done on my car and I've learned a lot from him. Thing is he always involves my every step of the way, so I always have to learn more about what he is doing and he always takes the time to explain it to me. The last time I took an automotive class was back in 1980 after I got out of the USAF. Now that I am about to turn "56" I only seem to have a great short term memory..... like for the first three minutes. Thanks! Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #16 – April 05, 2013, 12:53:42 PM Quote from: 86cougar;412652Aerocoupe, I really enjoyed the links you sent me! Now I have a better idea what the difference is between mass air and speed density. So, if I'm guessing right, the car came with MAF, then when he bought the upper plenum and EEC from the "88" Mustang it was speed density and it looks like he is going to convert it back. Not quite. An 86 Cougar came with Speed Density. There is no way an 86 Cougar was MAF from the factory. Not possible. It was Speed Density. If a 5.0 HO is stock it will run the same no matter if it is run with a Speed Density Computer or a MAF computer. There is NO DIFFERENCE between a stock 5.0 HO that came out of a Speed Density car or a MAF car. Just because the engine came from a MAF car doesn't mean that MAF is required to run it. The engine will run fine on Speed Density. The block, heads, intake (both upper and lower plenum), injectors, cam, throttle body, and rockers are the same parts from 1987-1993 on a 5.0 HO. Look at it this way: in 1991 you could buy either a Mustang with a 5.0 HO or a Lincoln Mark VII with a 5.0 HO. Both of these engine use the same parts. The Mustang has a MAF computer and the Mark VII has a Speed Density computer. The same engine, run by two differnt engine computers.You may be confusing MAF and MAP. MAF stands for MASS AIR FLOW. MAP is MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE, which can be another name for Speed Density:D. Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #17 – April 05, 2013, 01:39:12 PM Quote from: thunderjet302;412658Not quite. An 86 Cougar came with Speed Density. There is no way an 86 Cougar was MAF from the factory. Not possible. It was Speed Density. Agreed ... The first of any Ford to get mas air was the Calif '88 Mustang with 49 states models changing in '89... Mass Air never existed before '88 and never on a Fox T-Bird or Cougar...... Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #18 – April 05, 2013, 02:29:46 PM When Jimmi first got the car together with the new engine and rebuilt transmission, it was running rich. Then he talked to a friend of his and he said it was because of switching to MAF (EEC) and not having it hooked up correctly, that's why we need the harness adapter. So, from what I understand, Jimmi if getting the parts needed. From what I have read here, the MAF is better for daily driving and the SD is better for the track. There is obviously a lot of information out there on the conversion, the part that seems to bring about some debate is because of how Ford used to rate HP it seems confusing to many as to which system will give you the most HP. From what I have read the SD system will let you get away with more modifications than MAF. What my car came with is EFI and map sensor, which will not allow much as far as modifications. From what I understand happened is that Jimmi bought a EEC for MAF and my car was set up for SD and not wired right. Does that make sense? Thanks! Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #19 – April 05, 2013, 02:33:46 PM If it's a stock style H.O engine, leave it Speed Density. Done. Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #20 – April 05, 2013, 02:47:05 PM Vinniebird, So, I guess it would be easier and better to just buy another EEC (bring he got the wrong one) for the stock set up and it will re-learn and adjust to my new engine, dual exhaust, cam, 19lb. injectors, and upper plenum after a couple of hours running it. Sound right? Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #21 – April 05, 2013, 03:10:08 PM Quote from: 86cougar;412663When Jimmi first got the car together with the new engine and rebuilt transmission, it was running rich. Then he talked to a friend of his and he said it was because of switching to MAF (EEC) and not having it hooked up correctly, that's why we need the harness adapter. So, from what I understand, Jimmi if getting the parts needed. From what I have read here, the MAF is better for daily driving and the SD is better for the track. There is obviously a lot of information out there on the conversion, the part that seems to bring about some debate is because of how Ford used to rate HP it seems confusing to many as to which system will give you the most HP. From what I have read the SD system will let you get away with more modifications than MAF. What my car came with is EFI and map sensor, which will not allow much as far as modifications. From what I understand happened is that Jimmi bought a EEC for MAF and my car was set up for SD and not wired right. Does that make sense? Thanks! So what you're saying is:You removed your stock EEC and installed one from a MAF (89-93) Mustang? If so purchase an EEC for an 87-88 Mustang with an Automatic transmission or an 88-91 Linconl Mark VII, as they are both Speed Density EEC-IVs. Remove the MAF EEC from you car and install the replcement Speed Density EEC. Your car should run fine after that.DO NOT re-install the EEC that came with your car. IT WILL NOT work with the HO engine. Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #22 – April 05, 2013, 04:23:23 PM I just got off the phone with Jimmi. He now has a A9 EEC, and everything for the MAF set up except for the harness adapter which he is going to get today. He said I should have my car by tomorrow. I am in the back porch lapping the valves on my "71" Ford LTD convertible w/ 351W and should be putting it back together this weekend. The cool thing about this car is I have a lot of new parts left over from the Cougar 302 that will fit this car. Thanks! for all your help! Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #23 – April 05, 2013, 04:33:16 PM Good luck with the Mas Air conversion, and let us know how it works out. Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #24 – April 05, 2013, 04:51:46 PM One last thing so you have your terminology correct when it comes to Fox fuel injection. MAF is mass air flow, SD is speed density, MAP is manafold absolute pressure (SD cars use this one), and BAP is barametric air pressure (mass air cars use this one). Now this is something that will mess with your mind...the MAP and BAP are the same sensor but used differently. The MAP configuration is where the sensor is connected to the manifold vacuum and the BAP is left open to atmosphere. So if you have a SD car and want to convert it to mass air just unplug the vacuum line from the MAP sensor to the manifold source. Cap the manifold port and leave the port on your now BAP open to atmosphere. I would suggest putting a fine mesh over the open port on the BAP so that small insects do not use it as a hotel but other than that probably one of the easiest parts of the conversion.So, to convert over to mass air you need a stock mass air flow meter (MAF) & tubing from the air box to the throttle body, wiring harness for the MAF installation between the MAF and the EEC, 19 lb injectors, convert the MAP to BAP, and an A9L (standard trans only) or A9P (standard or auto trans) EEC. This is all if your existing SD motor came from an 85-88 Mustang or the Mark VII cars (cannot remember the years but it was mentioned earlier). If not then basically the only thing that is good from your SD motor is the short block minus the cam. I mean the heads would work but the E6 heads are horrible and only worthy of boat anchors.Darren Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #25 – April 05, 2013, 06:44:47 PM Quote from: vinnietbird;412674Good luck with the Mas Air conversion, and let us know how it works out. Vinniebird, It's been almost a year since my car has started the surgery. I can't wait to get it back!Thunderjet302, What I have learned about EEC and EEV I've learned on this forum. Believe me my car is in better hands with Jimmi than if I were to try the conversion. Maybe if I just bought a kit with lots of pictures, but they are a bit pricey. Aerocoupe, Great links! I got off the phone a second time with Jimmi and that is exactly what he was trying to explain to me. Would those #1 Thumper Heads be a good replacement for my set-up? The compression on my "87" HO engine I believe is 9.2 so I might have to watch and make sure the heads will be ok. That's why I was asking about weight on another post, aluminum will be lighter and I wonder about how much HP will I get from switching the heads? Is that right, about $600.00 for the pair? Should I also go for the guide plates? Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #26 – April 05, 2013, 07:20:24 PM Looks like Jimmi just hooked me up with a posi 3:55 7.5" rear axle and shorty headers. He also ended up with a "93" Mustang computer instead of the A9. I need to know if it will work. I have a AOD trassmission with a shift kit and upgrade converter.C3WF3ZF-12A650-FAEEC-1VSFI-MA12A On the Corral forum, it says that this computer has been reprogrammed for 24# (Cobra) injectors and I have 19# injectors. So, it look like a no go. But, if I understood him right the rear axle is off a "93" Mustang and it has horizontal shocks to stop it from bucking? He says we can jack the car up and switch axles in no time. This is all new to me (I don't have a clue what he's talking about). So, off I go to read some more. Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #27 – April 05, 2013, 07:54:42 PM The Thumper heads are simply E7 castings (iron heads) that have been ported and stock size valves. My guess is that they pay a lot of attention to the area under the valve which is the bowl by pocketing it out and blending it back into the runners. They most likely port the intake runners and leave them a bit rough for better fuel/air mixture and then port and polish the exhaust side which is the more restrictive side anyhow. You will not see a lot of weight savings with these heads as they are still cast iron. Then you have the quandary of whether or not you want to run pedestal type rocker arms (stock stamped junk or real roller rockers) or have the heads machined to accept the stud mount rockers.So if I was going to get these heads then I would opt for the stud mount and the valve springs which will cost you and additional $200 according to the Thumper website which would bring the cost up to $795 if you have another set of E7 heads to send them for the core charge plus shipping. You will also need to round up the ARP rocker arm studs (did not see that they came with studs) which usually run about $50-$75 for the set, and guide plates which are around $20 for a set. This will get you a ready to bolt on the short block set of heads for about $880 plus any shipping or taxes. A set of Edelbrock's or GT-40X's will run you about $1,000 new and you can find them all day long used for around $700 and they come with all the parts the Thumper heads are missing. Me, I would buy the used aluminum heads and go on about my business. From there you will need hardened push rods which are about $40 a set, a good set of roller rockers for about $160 a set, and a set of good poly lock rocker arm nuts for about $25 a set.The short of it is good heads are not cheap but if you take your time and work the internet you can find some deals. If you send the lower intake off to Tom Moss (goes by TMoss on the Corral) and have him port it for $100 then the heads will really pay off. I would think that a 30 rwhp gain would not be unrealistic and from there every thing else you do to the motor (cam, exhaust, throttle body, etc) will take better advantage of the heads and make more power.Darren Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #28 – April 05, 2013, 08:03:39 PM Okay, as far as I know the EEC-IV cannot be reprogrammed for the 24 lb/hr injectors without a chip. So if it is an A9L or A9P and it has a chip then buy the processor and remove the chip and it will revert back to its factory tune. If the chip is one of the name brand one's you knocked a home run if someone in your area can dyno tune with it.The "horizontal" shocks in the rear are quad shocks. They are a must with stock control arms but if you get a set of the CHE control arms (shameless plug) then you do not need them as they will take care of the piss poor band aides Ford installed for wheel hop known as quad shocks.Darren Quote Selected
MAF conversion 5.0 HO Reply #29 – April 05, 2013, 08:16:25 PM No, I don't want to pay good money and end up with more cast iron. I have read good and bad about the GT-40X's and to be honest, I just want to buy a simple bolt on set-up. So, maybe Edelbrock will be the way I will go. Jimmi said that the rear axle is of a "93" 4 cylinder thunderbird. Does that sound right? Quote Selected
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