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More Horsepower!

Reply #45 –
Well this thread went to hell in a handbasket.........
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

More Horsepower!

Reply #46 –
Yeah, well... LS!
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

More Horsepower!

Reply #47 –
Actually, you dont need boost to make a respectable 400 horsepower from a 302. A bottle maybe, but none the less. My buddies fox has a explorer 302, gt40p heads, e303 cam, its carbed with a 125 shot. Dyno'd at about 390 at the wheels. Mostly used and junkyard parts.

But, back to the 2.3 stuff that were here to actually supposed to be debating. Ranger roller cam, turbo, exhaust, gutted knife edged intakes,good motorcraft ignition parts are the first few places to eek power out of the 2.3

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Reply #48 –
Quote from: TOM Renzo;420057
So building a 302 with a blower for example will cost app 8 GRAND and get 400 Wheel HP. That is not a good buy back for your DOLLARS.


TOM, I usually agree with you, but I think you have been hitting the pipe a bit to hard tonight... for 8 grand you could build a aftermarket block'ed, 225cc headed, 363ci, 8.2 deck height engine that would be putting down well over 500hp NA.

OR, you could take a $500 junkyard explorer engine, put a set of forged pistons in it ($400), gasket match everything ($free-fiddy) , head studs and main studs ($250), Gaskets with good head gaskets ($200), supporting mods like 340lph fuel pump/AFPR/tune ($750), and an on3 Performance turbo kit ($1800 with upgrade turbo). It would make 500+hp. sure, you might split the block, but that list comes out to $3600. with the $4400 left in your budget figure, you could buy an aftermarket block, crank, and heads which would allow you to turn the boost up and make 700+...

TOM, I believe that you are most likely a  good mechanic. I KNOW you are a very valuable source of repair info on this site, BUT, I do not think you know how much parts actually cost.

Unless of course you were talking about dropping the car off at your shop and telling you "I want 400whp" which I could see costing $8000 at a shop since shops here charge well over $1000 in labor for a simple engine swap.
Currently Birdless but never Foxless

86 Mustang GT

More Horsepower!

Reply #49 –
First of all i do not charge 1000 bucks for an engine swap. Example i did a super beetle last week and charged a 125 dollars.So it depends on the car. Some engines cost over a thousand bucks. 125.00 is my hourly rate. Bottom line is the 302 SBC BBC and all the old obsolete engines are fine for a resto or moderate mods and low HP. Today guys are running street cars well in to the 800 HP range. Once again all these old engines do not pump AIR. So they do not make HP. With that pricing out a good bottom end doing all the required machine work and doing all the modifications to either TURBO IT or a supercharger is quite expensive. Even if you decide to buy a crate engine it is going to cost at least 5 K just for the engine. That is a GOOD ENGINE. One that will not split in TWO when approaching these HP# Been there to many times with customers. So the basic discussion was the 2.3 V 5.0  With that the engine comparison is quite even with the 5.0 slightly higher on HP and Torque. With that it is my belief it is easier to modify a 2.3 cheaper than a 5.0 and the results are close leaning to the 2.3. I have built and ran many a 2.3 on the dyne and they produce good HP at a reasonable cost. With that i do base my costs on my shop time labor to some degree for engine building. But like you said doing it yourself is the saving. Also many of those kits are expensive. Especially blower setups. But a lot of guys go for Blowers as dyi guys because it does not involve welding to a point. So many turbo cars are expensive and complicated. But on the other hand a Blower uses HP to make HP so pick your poison. Thanks

The engine below will cost telephone # just to rebuild it. It will make 1400 HP to the wheels. It blew up . It will be dun correctly and live another day.




Now we also do LAWN MOWER ENGINES. Below is one of the lowest HP cars we ever ran on the DYNE. 36 HP to the wheels. Without a dought the lowest hp we ever checked. But not bad it started out at 22. Thanks and have a great day.

I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

More Horsepower!

Reply #50 –
OH, I know how you feel on the swap rate. When I had my shop I did them for $250 flat rate, some ended up paying me $200+ an hour, some ended up paying $20 an hour, you win some, you lose some though.

Most of the bigger shops around here though charge by how many hours AllData says it will take to do the job. like a simple CV axle change on a Kia Optima that I ended up doing for a woman. She had priced the job at some of the shops in town, it was between $200 and $325 just in labor, not counting parts and shop materials to change one CV. AllData calls for roughly 5 hours to change one CV on an Optima. I went and did it in her driveway in 45 minutes and she gave me $100, I was only planning to charge $50, but she insisted.
Currently Birdless but never Foxless

86 Mustang GT

More Horsepower!

Reply #51 –
How about these?? Taken from Kaase's website. It was also aired on an episode of Stacy David's Gearz.

  • Equipped with Kaase P-38 cylinder heads, a modest  camshaft, and an Edelbrock Junior intake, the 302, running on pump fuel  and barely 9:1 compression ratio, easily generates 500hp @ 7500rpm.
I likey!! :evilgrin:


86' T/C 4.6L DOHC
16' Chebby Cruze 1.4L Turbo
17’ Peterbilt 389 600hp 1850ftlb Trq 18spd

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

“Heavy Metal Mistress”
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

More Horsepower!

Reply #52 –
Quote from: 1BadBird;420095
How about these?? Taken from Kaase's website. It was also aired on an episode of Horsepower TV.

  • Equipped with Kaase P-38 cylinder heads, a modest  camshaft, and an Edelbrock Junior intake, the 302, running on pump fuel  and barely 9:1 compression ratio, easily generates 500hp @ 7500rpm.
I likey!! :evilgrin:

Was there supposed to be a link there? I missed it.

More Horsepower!

Reply #53 –
I forgot to put it in and I noticed I put the wrong show in also. Sorry :(  try this :)
http://staceydavid.com/black-book/jon-kasse-racing

  • Complete assembled cylinder heads consist of Premium stainless steel  valves, ARP Pro series rocker studs, Custom built guide plates,  Competition Cams and Manley hardware, Manley Nextech valve springs on  full roller cylinder heads, Pac or Competition Cams Bee Hive valve  springs on hydraulic roller cylinder heads, flat tappet also available. $2500.00 pair.
    • [/FONT][/SIZE]
  • Complete assembled cylinder heads come with Kaase cast P-38 valve covers and valve cover gaskets.
 
  • Bare P-38 cylinder heads are machined and ready to assemble. $795.00 each.

  • P-38 cast aluminum valve covers $99.00 pair.
  • Valve cover gaskets $40.00.


86' T/C 4.6L DOHC
16' Chebby Cruze 1.4L Turbo
17’ Peterbilt 389 600hp 1850ftlb Trq 18spd

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

“Heavy Metal Mistress”
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

More Horsepower!

Reply #54 –
I forgot to put it in and I noticed I put the wrong show in also. Sorry :( 
try this :) http://staceydavid.com/black-book/jon-kasse-racing

  • Complete assembled cylinder heads consist of Premium stainless steel  valves, ARP Pro series rocker studs, Custom built guide plates,  Competition Cams and Manley hardware, Manley Nextech valve springs on  full roller cylinder heads, Pac or Competition Cams Bee Hive valve  springs on hydraulic roller cylinder heads, flat tappet also available. $2500.00 pair.
    • [/FONT][/SIZE]
  • Complete assembled cylinder heads come with Kaase cast P-38 valve covers and valve cover gaskets.
  • Bare P-38 cylinder heads are machined and ready to assemble. $795.00 each.
  • P-38 cast aluminum valve covers $99.00 pair.
  • Valve cover gaskets $40.00.



86' T/C 4.6L DOHC
16' Chebby Cruze 1.4L Turbo
17’ Peterbilt 389 600hp 1850ftlb Trq 18spd

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

“Heavy Metal Mistress”
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

More Horsepower!

Reply #55 –
Quote from: 87thunderbirdBlackJack;420070
.............
But, back to the 2.3 stuff that were here to actually supposed to be debating. Ranger roller cam, turbo, exhaust, gutted knife edged intakes,good motorcraft ignition parts are the first few places to eek power out of the 2.3

^^^^^
What he said + a good free flowing cold air intake system so it can breathe in as well as out.
Ron
Speed is just a question of MONEY How fast can you go?    (M. M.)

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Reply #56 –
Guys the OP hasn't been on the board since the end of June. He hasn't responded in this thread since January............

You guys turned this into a giant g match for nothing :hick:
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

More Horsepower!

Reply #57 –
Dougy-Fresh i was thinking what you said yesterday and could not do any work today thinking about the combo. The combo you posted stuck in my mind all night so this morning i went over to J&L racing and met with Joe one of the best ford engine builders i know. He actually has a computer program that estimates HP and RPM with ford components and combos. He also has programs for other engines as well. So we typed in your combo with 8.5-1 compression and a Comp cam with specks around 560-580L and 221 D on 112 Centers .030 over on pump 93 and 16 Lbs of wind and sure enough the computer spit out 500+ ponies plus or minus. What you posted was on my mind all night and i could not sleep. Re Reading your post was fascinating because of the ROD angles and app flow numbers the computer spit out. Clearly the computer confirmed what you posted. I commend you and i am impressed. Thanks and have a great night. GOOD JOB!!

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

More Horsepower!

Reply #58 –
Quote from: thunderjet302;420100
Guys the OP hasn't been on the board since the end of June. He hasn't responded in this thread since January............

You guys turned this into a giant g match for nothing :hick:


I dont think so as i learnes something and we had a good discussion. Disagreeing is healthy and i actually got some education on this subject. I enjoyed it and we were all civil as i read the posts. I personally think this was one of the best discussions in some time. I enjoyed it and it opened my mind. As the matter of fact i am going to build a small Fors motor and use the compo posted that we just discussed in my wifes DROP top Mustang. Thanks Tom
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

More Horsepower!

Reply #59 –
For such a heated topic, this was kept extremely civil. I was reluctant to involve myself due to the fact that I know very little about the little 4 bangers. I just prefer the 302 due to the fact that I know them pretty well and available parts are endless.:D:D