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Topic: Hi beam and Lo beam question (Read 8034 times) previous topic - next topic

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #30 –
well,
it looks like this blew up my auto lamp system.
foe~post a picture of your system on your bird that you did this mod to.

i have saved the threads in text, my internet may be down for a while , may be several days.  304 772 3411 if you can assist pls.

I was concerned with bonding to the white pink wire , after looking at the criss cross relay wiring, i do not believe the relays are getting 12v power from the light sensor but the light sensor is kinda providing a digital input I/O so to speak.

agree?

need help

i had everything fine with one small and very minior exception,, i easily reverted back to stock and then applied this mod, now my car has lost its auto lamp feature,, lets see what the cause it.

right now everything is hooked back up stock with only my ignition switch run / accy slaved.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #31 –
Been out of town all day, sorry.  I would have expected the 'running lights only' switch position to not work. It seemed acceptable to me, since I never run on just park lamps. 
First check Fuse 18.  If it's blown replace it and let us know if Autolamp comes back.  It's possible that we may need a diode.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #32 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;406285
Been out of town all day, sorry.  I would have expected the 'running lights only' switch position to not work. It seemed acceptable to me, since I never run on just park lamps. 
First check Fuse 18.  If it's blown replace it and let us know if Autolamp comes back.  It's possible that we may need a diode.

 

i considered a blocking diode on the slight sensor "relay output side" but didnt see you mentioned you needed one so i didnt.
have you done this perticular mod yet>?

fuse18 is good as well as all other fuses,,

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #33 –
i just undid your mod and my autolamps no longer operate.
im kinda t'd off now but it is what it is, pls tell me where i wired what incorrectly because i dont see it.

thanks,, i gotta really get this rectified by tomorrow afternoon drop dead.
like i said , i had it all working ,, but,, took this drawing to mean it was already tested, was it?  if not, we gotta take it down and put it up right so nobody does this one.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #34 –
I didn't say I had. I said I had done the combined lo-hi mod.  I was under the impression we were crowd-sourcing a mod design.  If you want, I'll try building it out over here next week on mine.  I'll bet it was fine until Autolamp1 relay got a combined signal.  I've got some PCM power diodes sitting around, if I build it out, I'll have to try one in the jumper wire.  What do you think the chances are that the amplifier board has a lifted track?  The diagram doesn't give us an internal view of the amplifier, unfortunately.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #35 –
Jay just a question. Jr called me in to the body shop Friday to trouble shoot a problem with a new Benz. The fog lights would not work after the body was fixes. It washiznit in the front. When the Fog lights were turned on they blinked and would not stay on. So over to my new system to pull a print on the circuit. What do you know The 140 Grand Benz has an electronic eye that prevents the fog lights from coming on in the day time. It turns out to be a fuel saving device. That beats all in my book but never the less true. So it got me thinking as usual. Why not incorporate this in the MIDNIGHTER for the head lights??? So with that i need a photo cell that can control a relay to turn my headlights on. I was told Radio Shack had one that works on 12 Volts. Not 100% as i have not gone there yet. If i can find one other than the one in the Benz or my alero. I am going to wire the midnighter for auto on off control when it gets dark. This way i can eliminate the headlight switch completely. I have wired daylight running lights in Bruiser with good results but this is even better. So my quest for a photo cell that i can use for this application. I will try it out on bruiser and post back. Now where to get one??? I will go to the junk yard on Monday and see if i can get an auto control out of a car that has this feature. I think auto on lights would be a cool addition to my T Bird what do you think??

Note i do not have auto dim or walk away illumination. But i think what i am doing can be incorporated in the system easily if i can find an aqlero with the same feature as mine or my Silverado. They both have signal century of dark lamp on circuitry. This way the system can be simple and the headlight switch can be removed and installed in the trash can. Input please??
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #36 –
I've added an edit to my post with the modded diagram.  I don't want anybody else burning out an amplifier because they took my brainstorming for something else.  I'm still interested in seeing it work, so I'm going to work it out on mine.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #37 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;406244
The beauty of the mod in figure 1 is that you're not activating the Autolamps, you're just activating it's relays. When you turn off the manual switch, and allow the Autolamps system to work, the trigger wire you added is open in the switch, so there are no backfeeds.  It would be seamless to, say, have the Autolamps set to ON in bright light conditions where the system would stay dark, but the manual switch set to ON also (the lights would be ON), but when it got dark, you would shut off the manual switch while the lights would remain ON at the command of the Autolamps system.  Operation would remain transparent.  These relays hardly ever fail, and I've never heard of the amplifier module going bad on ANY Ford, ever.  It seems so simple a mod that it should have been this way from the beginning.


sorry man but based on what you said here and the previous post, i kinda feel like ive been had.
pls do us a favor and dont post such confidence in your posts in such a way that makes it clearly apparent that this was the way it should have been done all along without first testing your write up.
this is a tech thread and it cant be misleading.

to be honest and truthful with everyone i have been working on this mod wire for wire circuit for circuit carefully and communicating almost daily with updates and comprehensive information (be it wrong or correct) it is information that ends up being useful in the end .  you were not around when "incorrect information" burnt down a mans turbocoupe on here because the data was looking great on paper.

im done with this thread and i will find my problem and revert back to the over engineered solution that was previously working.  I am not mad, i made a choice but now i have to back my car out of the garage in trade for two other projects and hunt down the fault later,, hope its an auto lamp module but i have no spares.

sorry if i sound rude but the item in bold above lent to the blind assumption that you had done this, coupled with my knowing i have confidence in your tech work you do, the risk  was mine to take and i did.  The item in bold above never ever appeared in any of the previous relay mod discussions , this just appeared out of nowhere like it just gave birth but i was certain you must have figured this out and fogot or just didnt get around to posting it.

we all make mistakes, just pls test stuff first before hand,, we are cool, no worries, no tears.  life rolls on.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #38 –
Quote from: TOM Renzo;406291
Jay just a question. Jr called me in to the body shop Friday to trouble shoot a problem with a new Benz. The fog lights would not work after the body was fixes. It washiznit in the front. When the Fog lights were turned on they blinked and would not stay on. So over to my new system to pull a print on the circuit. What do you know The 140 Grand Benz has an electronic eye that prevents the fog lights from coming on in the day time. It turns out to be a fuel saving device. That beats all in my book but never the less true. So it got me thinking as usual. Why not incorporate this in the MIDNIGHTER for the head lights??? So with that i need a photo cell that can control a relay to turn my headlights on. I was told Radio Shack had one that works on 12 Volts. Not 100% as i have not gone there yet. If i can find one other than the one in the Benz or my alero. I am going to wire the midnighter for auto on off control when it gets dark. This way i can eliminate the headlight switch completely. I have wired daylight running lights in Bruiser with good results but this is even better. So my quest for a photo cell that i can use for this application. I will try it out on bruiser and post back. Now where to get one??? I will go to the junk yard on Monday and see if i can get an auto control out of a car that has this feature. I think auto on lights would be a cool addition to my T Bird what do you think??

Note i do not have auto dim or walk away illumination. But i think what i am doing can be incorporated in the system easily if i can find an aqlero with the same feature as mine or my Silverado. They both have signal century of dark lamp on circuitry. This way the system can be simple and the headlight switch can be removed and installed in the trash can. Input please??

to be  truthful, these diagrams ford has are over complicated piles in some cases.
i could easily achieve headlamps on and off without a light switch and a parrallel retundunt circuit all on one relay that would be a built in fail safe incase the sensor failed or got dirty.
my head hurts just staring at my autolamp relays.  look at them,, i swear the light sensor is triggering auto relay 1 by way of a difference of potential and not actual power... the shop manual implies the sensor applies power,, cant prove it though but the "criss cross" relay arrangment with power and ground on either relay illudes to an applicaton that typically is only reserved for latching relays ,, i think i described that right.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #39 –
I learned this years ago with snow plow lighting. I kind of knew this but posting sometimes gets me in trouble. I do not have a module i looked for you. If i had one it would already have been shipped. I will look tomorrow again as i know i have one somewhere Sorry man i feel bad Tom

Jay for what it"s worth i feel very bad about this and if you need something it is yours. I am going to tear he shop apart fro the module as i think not 100% they are obsolete. Hope not . Good luck Buddy. Had a thought maybe you can look at the circuit board and repair it. I think their is a relay in the system not 100% on this but it is worth a look. Good luck Tom!!
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #40 –
Sorry to hear this turned to . Yeah Foe had me sold too.
If you pull the O/W wire off the back of the headlight switch it will stop the auto from turning on the lights I believe it is a seperate one wire connector. This will get your car operational until you figure this out.
It does sound like the light sensor amp is blown.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #41 –
This may be the same p/n

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #42 –
THAT LOOKS LIKE IT. JAY POST A PHOTO OF YOURS AS MY CARS DO NOT HAVE THAT FEATURE. Sorry i had the cap key on. But i have many modules from cars i parted out. Please post it as if i have one it is yours no worys about that. Thanks. I also have daylight running amplifiers and relays for big rigs. If you like i can send you a couple. I know it is different but what the heck!!!

Softtuch if all else fails he can use any amplifier from any car. Example GM like my alero. Or that TAURUS unit if he has the plug. Not the end of the world. I found this out as i said doing plow light circuits. Most modules wont handle the extra current. Sorry Jay!!
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #43 –
im gonna go with foe and open it up if possible, open it up to inspect for a blown run or a shorted diode ect,, if not ill set up with my safe back out plan until a relacement is found.


I looked through my pictures of my d stash and dont see a module.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #44 –
Moving forward, i decided to attempt a repair.
****warning- if you remove your module, remove the clock and "PUSH UP" on the cover around the module.  I had no cracks in my dash at all but now since i assumed your suppose to pry the cover from the top, well thats that i did and oppsie~!!,  i now have my first damage to what once was a mint top dash cover,, its pretty bad to.  its my belief that if you heat up the interior first since its winter now, this will allow the top to flex and you can pop off the cover but if its cold,,, forget about it, the dash acts a fragile as corn flakes.

If by any chance someone has access to thier module, i need some ref voltage readings.  I am not totally convienced that this mod it out, with a blocking diode, this may be the the way to trick screw the module into operating like normal.
here is what i have,
with the auto lamp relay 1 unplugged, ,,,
I have 0v output on the middle autolamp module pin wh/pk.  i have both power inputs, one for "power" and one for Ignition.
The further downstream "timer" delayed exist circuit is !!!still working!! which tells me that the module itself has some interior parts still operational

What i have done,
visual inspection- found the + leg of the largest cap leg to board was disconnected,,, no signs of burning so it may have been my handling that caused this,, dono but its repaired.

measurements-
all caps seem to charge and discharge with my meter (without a diagram, not certain who is in paralell with who but technically i cant say there is a bad cap.

The very first diode D1 was reading kinda odd so i lifted one leg and i had an open one way and 1.3mg the other.  i really wish i had had just taken voltage measurements, then i would have seen the normal .3 to .6 volts drop across each diode, maybe today.  ignore the heat mark you see on the - side of D1, thats my discoloration from staying on the leg too long while removing D1.  My son chance says he can see the window in D5 shows a larger opening compared to D4,, i cant see it , but I am finding D5 to be suspect next.

The resistors pretty much mesured up to thier color band value so i am happy that they are laid out from what i assume mostly series.

i am looking for voltage readings on the following :
either side of each diode as shown
voltage i assume as the input as typical on IC's on pin 1.

i will power my module up and hopefully this will narrow down the ckt.


on a side note,
with all devices plugged up and on like oem, when i turn on my headlamp switch, i get exterior marker lamps with the middle positon, then moving to headlamps i get my headlamps to come on, and  * i hear / feel/ measure autolamp relay 2 energize. 

I still dont really understand the criss cross relays but whatever they are doing, id like to learn the application, seems interesting of a layout and sorta breaks the rules we normally follow.  i could be wrong.

with any luck, with voltage readings, i can quickly narrow down the issue, if its that IC, im prob screwed and will need another module.