minor engine stumble issue.

Topic: minor engine stumble issue. (Read 2679 times) previous topic - next topic

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #15 – December 15, 2012, 09:49:10 PM

Well lookee here, it looks like somebody thought they were an electrician. Space looks like my orange white wire has been twisted together and sealed up with silicone. I'm a fix this before MoveOn

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #16 – December 16, 2012, 12:22:18 AM

fixed the orange / white wiring and now i have my EGR working.

apparently the EVP solenoid **IS** providing a vac path.

the egr is moving in and out **but** after a few warm up cycles, the code 34 remains. it is my only code now, perhaps i will just run it for a while and see what happens.. maybe it will go away, who knows.

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #17 – December 16, 2012, 01:16:35 AM

Quote from: jcassity;404630

Holy ,
Moving the throttle wide open and Letting it return deenergize is the EEC relay.
Moving the throttle again once more wide open re energizes the EEC relay.

Once more all characteristics of solenoids come into play depending on their state

You sure it's the EEC relay? Seems like if the EEC powered off it would forget it was running the test.

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #18 – December 16, 2012, 03:01:01 AM

i knew after i washed up and thought about what i typed it was word vomit. i meant WOT relay.
I also felt the smog pump solenoids clicking as well.

im gonna give it a few warm up cycles then recheck codes later on.

i did not test the evp millivolt reading yet, i was assuming you wanted me to do this with the evp connector on and thats what i was going to do until i found my hidden mess.
Its a very difficult spot to get to unless i stick pin the wires and gator clip,, then no problem. will get to this tomorrow hopefully

i do know that i had about 3.4vdc from those wires with the evp connector off and reading on the connector end a week or so ago. Its actually the very first test i did.
I do have 5.2vdc from the org to ground, kinda makes sense per the 87 diagram.

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #19 – December 16, 2012, 06:39:24 AM

Code 34 clearly pointed to the EGR positioner. The ecm was seeing a high voltage from it at closed pintle. Another words it was seeing an EGR valve that was stuck open. That code should have sent you their not the solenoid.

Code 34 is set when the ECM sees a closed EGR valve and sends .6 volts or higher back to the ECM. I have never changed a solenoid on a ford for the EGR valve. The ECM will not set a code for a defective solenoid. It monitors the EGR positioner for movement not the solenoid

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #20 – December 16, 2012, 11:37:37 AM

i went directly to the evp first off like the code said.

my test showed the egr never moved from a cold to a warm engine state.
i removed the evp and swapped in a known good 1year manuf date older (had same total resistance , had same center tap resistance, had good readings from what a digital meter can provide). I do need to still get an buttstuffog meter.

I pulled vac on the diaphram and the egr held vac for as log as it took me to walk in the house and reload coffee.

in my mind, i saw that the diaphram never moved and the EGR solenoid makes that happen.
i removed the egr solenoid and powered it up off the battery and heard no audible click any sorts, no state change, no smoke either.
I measured the egr solenoid coil resistance and got odd readings like i was across a capacitor ( i was expecting some resistive valute) , found a diode atop the coil inside the solenoid and it was shorted.
I concluded the diode was there for filtering purposes and cut one side just to see if anything changed, the resistance went from an odd reading to a steady ohm value i have now forgotten.

i powered up the solenoid with 12v and now i had an audible click.
I could not blow air through one vac fitting to the other,, concluded the path inside this sucker was clogged somehow.
sprayed cleaner up in both holes and re-installed , now the egr is moving, therefore the evp sensor is also now getting a signal.

the reasons for my fooling with the egr solenoid is because the egr was not moving so the egr control solenoid does this job. now the egr moves , perhaps i do have a path for vac flow after spraying stuff in there.

doing the wide open throttle test after codes are dumped did not energize this solenoid either.

i see what you are saying though, the code is what it is, however, probing the connector is impossible with the egr installed. I opted to removed and test the evp on its own and see if the egr held vac, both passed in my opinion. the input was couldnt have been good for sure. Oddly enough, the tps had good input voltage which was amazing to me but apparently there was enough contact that the previous owners work may have been working "well enough". something did change after repairing the orange white wire(s) though, the egr started to work.

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #21 – December 16, 2012, 12:25:04 PM

Jay with all due respect the ECM was telling you that the EVP was out of range and returning to much voltage. Hence a code 34. Code 34 once again tells yo the EGR valve is off it's seat. That is accomplished br the EVP sensor. What you should have dun was unplugged the connector from the EVP then run codes. Or remove the EVP from the egr valve and see if you cleared the code. A stuck EGR valve open sets code 34 as i explained. The ECM does not monitor a relay in this system. Bottom line my brother you ignored the ecm screaming out to you that the EVP was the issue. Thanks for listening and i respect the hell out of you . You are not ashamed of admitting a mess up. Either way you nailed it and all is good in the world, Thanks!

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #22 – December 16, 2012, 01:30:07 PM

well, i did go straight to the evp but when i pulled codes and when it passed, i had to look at associated devices, truely i didnt think about the egr being partially off its seat.

maybe this was a two person job during start up because i never saw the EGR move until after i fixed the org wire. Apparently it must have been off its seat like you both are saying but i never saw it move ever until i soldered that bonding point.

i look at the egr diaphram by eyeball, then walk around and start the car, then i rev the throttle a little bit with no results.. egr never moved.
fixed org wire and now when i rev the engine it flutters or opens up.

i see what your saying though, in order to get rid of this code, im gonna have to take some evp measurements following the emissions shop manual step by step.

i prob wont do this for a couple days of running the car though... thanks

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #23 – December 16, 2012, 02:49:55 PM

Well i have trimmed many of the plungers and or have shimmed them to clear that code. GOOD LUCK

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #24 – December 16, 2012, 03:37:10 PM

yep, i was wondering that after comparing a couple evp's i have lying around, wondered about the "height" off the vac diaphram and how calibrated it is.

took the car out for a spin and i cant make the problem happen right now. this is good news,

now i have code 23 and 34 on demand and 34 in memory.... LOL

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #25 – December 16, 2012, 09:49:52 PM

23 should be tps if I remember correctly...

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #26 – December 16, 2012, 10:17:10 PM

yep,, and the green wire has .845vdc with closed koeo and closed throttle so that part is good., tps is new.

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #27 – December 17, 2012, 12:30:23 AM

A code 23 indicates some type of problem obviously.

I'd run a quick sweep all the way through, makining sure there are no dead spots. The tps is basically a pot screw, and shouldn't throw a code unless you have a break in a wire or bad spot in it.

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #28 – December 17, 2012, 01:10:36 AM

i agree, something is up, i wonder if i introduced the code by cycling the trottle plate to test the solenoids after the codes finished.

minor engine stumble issue.

Reply #29 – December 17, 2012, 05:40:22 AM

Code 23 TPS out of range!!!! Best tested with a scope not a meter. The scope will indicate NOISE. But if a meter is all you have a digital one is best.