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Topic: Mass Airflow? Update! (Read 5161 times) previous topic - next topic

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #15
Quote from: SR71blackbird;393587
huh, I was told differently on this form 3 years ago....


Told WHAT differently?
The Mass Air thing?  SD does limit your cam choices -- at least the stock Ford system does, but with an aftermarket system you can factor in low vacuum characteristics at idle and just about anything else.
Thing is it's cheaper to just go Mass Air than to go with a stand alone and get more than enough ability to compensate for 99% of people out there.

Again -- the stock Ford SD CAN compensate and will see power gains from upgraded parts.  Just gotta be picky is all.
-- 05 Mustang GT-Whipplecharged !!
--87 5.0 Trick Flow Heads & Intake - Custom Cam - Many other goodies...3100Lbs...Low12's!

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #16
And if you have a DA1 eec, you can have a chip burned for the mods you have, and the SD eec will not give 2 fat s whether you have a big cam, a small cam or 3 cams up your butt...*as long as their is a chip to tell it to respond accordingly*

Any obstacle can be overcame with time, ingenuity, or money to pay someone else for the hard work. A large cam on a SD eec is not difficult. But, as pointed out, it's easier to swap to MAF and be done with...after all, Ford engineers and programmers did the work.

OP, run your codes first, somethings may not need replaced. Get a book and a meter, and learn to test suspected components as well. I had a coolant temp sensor that went out of range on a 302 in my 92 truck...caused a lot of grief till I pulled the codes and it happened to be one on the list. I tested it..and it was bad. I'd never have suspected it. New one solved the issue.

That's an example ;)
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #17
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;393604
And if you have a DA1 eec, you can have a chip burned for the mods you have, and the SD eec will not give 2 fat s whether you have a big cam, a small cam or 3 cams up your butt...*as long as their is a chip to tell it to respond accordingly*

Any obstacle can be overcame with time, ingenuity, or money to pay someone else for the hard work. A large cam on a SD eec is not difficult. But, as pointed out, it's easier to swap to MAF and be done with...after all, Ford engineers and programmers did the work.

OP, run your codes first, somethings may not need replaced. Get a book and a meter, and learn to test suspected components as well. I had a coolant temp sensor that went out of range on a 302 in my 92 truck...caused a lot of grief till I pulled the codes and it happened to be one on the list. I tested it..and it was bad. I'd never have suspected it. New one solved the issue.

That's an example ;)

I agree completely. There are not a hole lot of sensors so replacement may not be that big of deal. Not a lot of cost or work. I would feel a lot better if all sensors were replaced. I would do this if there were no problems whatsoever.

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #18
If the engine is running poorly, it's going to be hard to get your trans dialed in with TV adjustment...some kids back in high school had me come over to check out a mustang they bought...told them it had a "big cam" in it...they tuned it up and it ran worse...I went over, corrected the firing order and it still ran like ...big nasty lope and black smoke puking out of the tailpipes...it was half drivable until about 2500rpm, then it would die if you didn't feather the throttle...turned out it had a sable/taurus 3.0 computer in it....and the stock cam.  Put in a DA1 and it ran like new.  Some people do some goofy things so make sure you check everything over, no matter how unlikely it is that it could be the cause.

Good luck,
Don
Project 3G: Grandpa Grocery Getter-'85 Crown Vic LTD 2-door, 351W with heavily ported/polished GT40 heads, heavily ported/polished Typhoon Power Plus upper & lower intake, Comp Cams 265DEH retarded 1*, FAST EZ-EFI, HD T5, 8.8" 3.73 trac lock with extra clutches, 3G alt. swap, '99 CVPI front brakes, '09 CVPI rear disc brakes, '00 CVPI booster&m/c + wilwood adj prop valve.

Parted & Gone-'88 T-bird Sport, 351W swap, ported GT40 heads

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #19
Actually, lots of sd computers have 3.0 tarus stamped onto them too...

It probably had a stock cam and a vacuum leak.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #20
Quote from: Haystack;393948
Actually, lots of sd computers have 3.0 tarus stamped onto them too...

It probably had a stock cam and a vacuum leak.

 
If you read my whole post, you'd see that we fixed it with a DA1 and the code that was on the computer was one I'd never seen before.  No vacuum leaks, just wrong computer....was trying to fire 6 injectors without seeing a MAF signal(SD car).

Read. Think. Reply.

That's typically how it works.

Thanks,
Don
Project 3G: Grandpa Grocery Getter-'85 Crown Vic LTD 2-door, 351W with heavily ported/polished GT40 heads, heavily ported/polished Typhoon Power Plus upper & lower intake, Comp Cams 265DEH retarded 1*, FAST EZ-EFI, HD T5, 8.8" 3.73 trac lock with extra clutches, 3G alt. swap, '99 CVPI front brakes, '09 CVPI rear disc brakes, '00 CVPI booster&m/c + wilwood adj prop valve.

Parted & Gone-'88 T-bird Sport, 351W swap, ported GT40 heads

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #21
It would be good advise for you to follow as well. The 3.0 taurus only sticker is well know and shows up under a quick google search. Many mark7 and 87-88 sd mustangs had them as well.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/444662-87-mustang-taurus-computer.html

Only part of my post that was assumed was that it probably had a stock cam. Everymustang guy out there says he has $5000 into the engine, a swapped cam and 500hp. High school kids are ever worse.

Basically the only thing that would make a stock engine run better under mass air is a bad vacuum source. Swapping to mass air would have made it seem to run better because the computer no long mesures the incoming air the same. On sd it solely relies on vacuum, on mass air, only mass air.

If you unplug the vacuum line to your map sensor on a sd system, you'll get about 4mpg and leave black soot under your tail pip, and it will run like . When you floor it, it runs "normal". This is becaue vacuum disapears under throttle, making the computer think you are floored, making the car run very rich, and idle very cruddy.

It was probably a bad grounding pin or burned up ecm.

Think before you post next time.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #22
I am noticing a lack of vacuum assist with the brakes. Either this thing has a vacuum leak or too much cam. I just wonder if the EGR is stuck. It appears the upper intake set up has seen a little weather. My trans guy is not worried about dialing in the trans with it running this way. I have total faith in him. He got the car this weekend and said he will most likely work on it next weekend. This is a side job for him.

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #23
All of the plastic fittings on the vac lines, and the vac distribution block like to crack, making it hard to find leaks. You can buy a new block from ford, and new fittings from any autoparts dealer. If you have deleted egr or emissions equipment, there are a lot of extra vac lines floating around.

The map sensor should have its own port. If your motor mounts are bad, the line will flex with your engine torque and wear the line out.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #24
Quote from: Haystack;393957
It would be good advise for you to follow as well. The 3.0 taurus only sticker is well know and shows up under a quick google search. Many mark7 and 87-88 sd mustangs had them as well.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/444662-87-mustang-taurus-computer.html

Only part of my post that was assumed was that it probably had a stock cam. Everymustang guy out there says he has $5000 into the engine, a swapped cam and 500hp. High school kids are ever worse.

Basically the only thing that would make a stock engine run better under mass air is a bad vacuum source. Swapping to mass air would have made it seem to run better because the computer no long mesures the incoming air the same. On sd it solely relies on vacuum, on mass air, only mass air.

If you unplug the vacuum line to your map sensor on a sd system, you'll get about 4mpg and leave black soot under your tail pip, and it will run like . When you floor it, it runs "normal". This is becaue vacuum disapears under throttle, making the computer think you are floored, making the car run very rich, and idle very cruddy.

It was probably a bad grounding pin or burned up ecm.

Think before you post next time.

 
You also assumed there was a vacuum leak when there wasn't.  The computer they had was coded for a taurus/sable, not just a sticker...you weren't there, you didn't look it up, you don't know.  BTW, a high post count doesn't equal greater knowledge,in your case it simply shows a higher level of spewing mis-information from time to time.

Were you ever able to scam anybody out of a transmission yet?  I know it didn't work on me, good look in the future though.

YOU are the reason I'm glad that I'm not a regular here anymore.
Project 3G: Grandpa Grocery Getter-'85 Crown Vic LTD 2-door, 351W with heavily ported/polished GT40 heads, heavily ported/polished Typhoon Power Plus upper & lower intake, Comp Cams 265DEH retarded 1*, FAST EZ-EFI, HD T5, 8.8" 3.73 trac lock with extra clutches, 3G alt. swap, '99 CVPI front brakes, '09 CVPI rear disc brakes, '00 CVPI booster&m/c + wilwood adj prop valve.

Parted & Gone-'88 T-bird Sport, 351W swap, ported GT40 heads

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #25
Quote from: Haystack;393965
All of the plastic fittings on the vac lines, and the vac distribution block like to crack, making it hard to find leaks. You can buy a new block from ford, and new fittings from any autoparts dealer. If you have deleted egr or emissions equipment, there are a lot of extra vac lines floating around.

The map sensor should have its own port. If your motor mounts are bad, the line will flex with your engine torque and wear the line out.
Vac lines and distribution block are in great shape. They are the same ones I had with the old engine that ran fine. The only problem the old engine had was a slight knock on the bottom end, and the whole 155hp thing. This rough idle appears to me as a big cam lope, not a something wrong rough. Most of the black smoke comes when putting foot in gas pedal. I won't rule out a vac leak or something else until I run codes and investigate further, but I do think this thing has too much cam and it is causing a lack of vacuum which is causing the MAP to freak.

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #26
I think when I get the car back, I will do as Darren suggested and pull a valve cover and measure valve lift. Then we will know more on what we are working with here.

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #27
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;393983
You also assumed there was a vacuum leak when there wasn't.  The computer they had was coded for a taurus/sable, not just a sticker...you weren't there, you didn't look it up, you don't know.  BTW, a high post count doesn't equal greater knowledge,in your case it simply shows a higher level of spewing mis-information from time to time.

Were you ever able to scam anybody out of a transmission yet?  I know it didn't work on me, good look in the future though.

YOU are the reason I'm glad that I'm not a regular here anymore.

Why don't you just sit down and tell us all what's really bothering you?

I don't know everything, and don't pretend to. For the most part I just answer basic questions and links to try to help someone out that might not know where to go. If I posted something incorrectly, please let me know so I can fix it. I guess I really steppd out of line by commenting on you having a 3.0 taurus computer in a stang, like probably 50% of all 87-88 mustangs did...

How do you assume I was trying to scam you? I vaguely remember you trying to sell a transmission and me asking about it. I don't remember many particulars about it. I ended up buying one locally and getting rid of my car, so I never used it.

So what have I done to bother you so much?
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #28
Oh and btw, evc systems are batch fire, so the computer doesn't know or care how many cylinders the car has when it comes to firing fuel injectors. Each bank is fired at the same time.

Also a bad map sensor input is one of the only things that will make your car shoot black smoke out of the tail pipe. If its a bad o2 sensor or temp sensor, the computer will run in fail safe mode. I haven't had low manifold pressure throw a code before, not saying it can't though.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Mass Airflow? Update!

Reply #29
Quote from: Haystack;393987
Oh and btw, evc systems are batch fire, so the computer doesn't know or care how many cylinders the car has when it comes to firing fuel injectors. Each bank is fired at the same time.

Also a bad map sensor input is one of the only things that will make your car shoot black smoke out of the tail pipe. If its a bad o2 sensor or temp sensor, the computer will run in fail safe mode. I haven't had low manifold pressure throw a code before, not saying it can't though.

 
Oh, and BTW, only the trucks are batch fired, slick...more spewing of mis-information from the feeble minded...I figured you would conveniently "forget" about the attempted t-5 scam and this guys thread isn't the place to detail that.  All your "knowledge" is pulled from bits and pieces all over the internet and you attempt to preach it as the gospel truth...doesn't go well with your tendencies to make assumptions.  I'd be more than happy to discuss this matter and help educate you via pm.

Anywho, Chrome, if you've already gone through everything it really does come down to checking the valve lift...not too hard, just takes some time.

Good luck,
Don
Project 3G: Grandpa Grocery Getter-'85 Crown Vic LTD 2-door, 351W with heavily ported/polished GT40 heads, heavily ported/polished Typhoon Power Plus upper & lower intake, Comp Cams 265DEH retarded 1*, FAST EZ-EFI, HD T5, 8.8" 3.73 trac lock with extra clutches, 3G alt. swap, '99 CVPI front brakes, '09 CVPI rear disc brakes, '00 CVPI booster&m/c + wilwood adj prop valve.

Parted & Gone-'88 T-bird Sport, 351W swap, ported GT40 heads