Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

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Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #30 – December 31, 2011, 12:42:48 AM

Tom, most of my automotive career was spent in Chrysler dealerships which pay the lowest warranty times in the industry. And, to make it worse, I am not exactly a quick worker. My comeback rate was always low though. I don't know if it is different in other parts of the country, but here they want techs to specialize. I am more of a jack of all trades. Due to my lack of speed and inability to specialize, I was given some of the worst jobs there was to have. I rarely got much customer pay jobs, and now the companies are putting bigger warranties on the cars, which makes it even worse. Now I install wireless internet, and I am advancing in this career rather quickly. I now love my job, but I still love working on cars in my free time. Having to learn new things though, because now I get to modify instead of keeping it all factory.

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #31 – December 31, 2011, 01:51:44 PM

Chrome that was exactly my position in the dealership too. I was more of a jack of all trades type too. That left you open to all kinds of work but it also left you open for more warranty work that others, who specialized, would shun. I have worked in my share of dealerships (Toyota, Honda, Ford, Chrysler, Jeep). The jobs in dealerships are quite limited anymore unless you are a foreman/group leader. At least that's how the landscape looks in my area. I made the decision to change careers several years ago and started taking college courses part time towards a civil engineering degree. I now work for a civil engineering company doing computer drafting and design work for roadway projects. I did not loose one cent making the career transition. I spent 28 years in the car business and learned alot and will always love working on and tinkering with cars.

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #32 – December 31, 2011, 05:12:02 PM

Ditto what Tom said: Engineering idiocy = money in my pocket. Even though I make a quite commfortable living turning wrenches, though, I've always said it's unfair that engineers get paid what they do, and assembly line workers get paid what they do, to make stupid mistakes that I have to fix at a fraction of the wage. I was always the electrical guy at the dealerships. I enjoy doing electrical work, but it always pissed me off that while I was wracking my brains on an electrical issue and only getting paid straight time for diagnosis plus .2 for the actual repair, some other guy who was too "stupid" to do electrical work was making 16 hours a day doing nothing but brakes & suspension. I got tired of it and got out of the flat rate game, and will never again work in a flat rate shop. Now, working salary, I don't feel like I'm being punished for being smart.

Some examples of engineering stupidity? Here are a few:

Ford modular engine spark plug issues. The PI-headed modulars would blow the plugs right out (and the threads with them), making necessary an expensive repair with dubious longevity. Then Ford comes out with the 3-valve head which solved the blowing out problem by using more threaded area to retain the plugs, but replaced it with another: They used two-piece spark plugs and the things would separate when you try to remove them, causing a difficult (and expensive) repair to extract the broken plug(s). And the beauty of it: The spark plug replacement requirement happens after the warranty has expired, meaning that Ford doesn't have to pay for their fvck-up. Note to any 3-valve engine owners: Unless you are experiencing problems, leave your plugs alone.

Cadillac Northstar engines: Basically that whole engine was an engineering mess. Even replacing the starter requires removing the intake manifold, and I pity anyone who has to replace an alternator in one. Two-piece engine block, which the seal between the two pieces fails frequently. Bad head gasket design. Notorious oil burners. And almost any repairs on these engines require removing the whole drivetrain, which comes out from underneath the car.

GM 6.5 Diesel: Another toilet, with problems too numerous to list. Honorary mention: The old Oldsmobile 4.3 and 5.7 diesels

Any engine that requires intake manifold removal to replace spark plugs. Ford Duratec 3.0 and Dodge 3.5, I'm looking at you, though there are numerous other offenders - I just have more experience with these two.

Chrysler 2.7 V6 - like the Toyota engines that Tom mentioned, only worse. In a way that only Chrysler could do.

Dodge Caliber/Jeep Patriot/Jeep Compass: The whole vehicle family is just plain horrible. Everything about them is horrible, and I'm not just talking about their horrible interiors or driving dynamics - they simply fall apart. Chrysler should be ashamed of this vehicle, and Chrysler's new owner, Fiat, certainly is (Fiat's CEO, Sergio Marachionne or something like that, recently said that to call the Caliber a retail vehilce is an abomination. This from a Fiat guy.)

Parking-brake-drum-in-a-rotor: Another really stupid idea that has been embraced industry wide. Thanks in part to an archaic motor vehicle safety standard that requires a mechanical braking system in case the hydraulic one fails (a standard that was rendered obsolete way back in the mid 60's when dual-circuit brakes were mandated) and thanks in part to the automotive press's creating the entirely unnecessary expectation that all cars have rear disc brakes, even economy cars, we now have two seperate braking systems for each rear wheel. Unfortunately, the secondary braking system is never used (unless the car is a standard, which of course most cars aren't) and it atrophies into a seized up rusted hulk in no time. Then, eventually, somebody tries to use it, usually a mechanic at safety inspection time, and it will not work (and usually sticks on just enough to cause the mechanic no end of fun when trying to remove the rotor/drum), causing repair bills in the hundreds of dollars for a component that will not be used again until the next inspection time, which will cause the same results as before.

I have many, many more, but the laptop battery is dying...

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #33 – December 31, 2011, 06:19:54 PM

Yes, it always pissed me off that I got boned on diagnosis while some person got paid $25 or more an hour to screw it up. My last position as a technician was at an independent shop getting paid hourly. That is pretty funny, what the CEO of Fiat said about Chrysler's vehicles. I remember seeing a Cadillac Northstar engine that would fill the valley in the block with oil because of an oil leak. It would eventually short the starter as it was placed in the valley.

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #34 – December 31, 2011, 08:11:51 PM

Thunder Chicken, that's funny that u mentioned spark plugs on modular engines. I had to throw a fit at work convincing them not to change spark plugs on are 08 F250 with 5.4. and true for those that flat rate these engineer screw ups are money makers, but for those of us who own these things after warranty is up, its not so great. Anyhow, I just started the thread because I thought it makes good conversation.

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #35 – December 31, 2011, 11:11:24 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;376546

THE LATE MODEL s10 HEATER CORE CALLS FOR 8.9+1 FOR ac. ME and JR do them together and tag team the job and do them in 2 hours.

really? i guess it's because i'm huge on S10's and have had my hands deep into more than i can count on 2 hands, but i can knock them out on my own in 2-1/2 hours

as for the MN-12's.. i have yet to see 1 rusting away around here.. maybe it's pure luck or maybe i'm just far enough away from the worst part of the rust belt lol

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #36 – January 01, 2012, 01:00:31 AM

Quote from: Shadow;376620

really? i guess it's because i'm huge on S10's and have had my hands deep into more than i can count on 2 hands, but i can knock them out on my own in 2-1/2 hours

as for the MN-12's.. i have yet to see 1 rusting away around here.. maybe it's pure luck or maybe i'm just far enough away from the worst part of the rust belt lol

It's funny..sometimes you can't see the rust, only thing hiding it is some paint...get it on a lift though, or get down on the ground under one, and unless it's been parked during Wet White shiznit, I can assure there's gonna be SOME rust on there, lol

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #37 – January 01, 2012, 01:34:36 AM

The mn-12's around here rust out bad on the underside. Sometimes all that is holding the rockers together is the paint.

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #38 – January 01, 2012, 01:38:25 AM

my SC was solid as hell, my buddy's cougar was even more solid and all the cars in my old car club were solid.. maybe SJ is just an MN-12 sweet spot for a slower rotting process lol

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #39 – January 01, 2012, 02:03:17 AM

Quote from: EricCoolCats;376515

Water neck bolts on a 5.0. Wow...five minutes alone with that engineer.

well, I had a solution for that but our crafty resident fabricator (Chuck) may not remember.

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #40 – January 01, 2012, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: Haystack;376635

The mn-12's around here rust out bad on the underside. Sometimes all that is holding the rockers together is the paint.

Up hear the rockers are GONE on most of the 89-93 MN-12s. The 94-97 cars seem to just have the rear rockers rot out. I think Ford may have rust-proofed the later cars a bit better. It didn't stop the lower passenger door frame from rotting out on my 95 T-bird.

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #41 – January 01, 2012, 03:59:46 PM

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #42 – January 01, 2012, 04:02:49 PM

[qu

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #43 – January 01, 2012, 04:57:25 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;376707

I am talking about second gen S10 heater cores. I do the first gens in 30 Minutes by myself

i know, you said 'late model' which are the second gens.. i've had my hands in literally 20 or more 1st gens, but there was no heater core.. or blower motor.. or any HVAC stuff for that matter, for obvious minitruck reasons

Automotive engineers.....What do they know?

Reply #44 – January 01, 2012, 09:10:59 PM

Quote from: Shadow;376620

as for the MN-12's.. i have yet to see 1 rusting away around here.. maybe it's pure luck or maybe i'm just far enough away from the worst part of the rust belt lol

Sorry chris, i agree with you on a lot of things tbird related, but living about 10 mins from you i disagree,
all the MN12's ive been around have had rust, Bob Kinee's tbird (both 93 5.0's) have rust on the rockers... and its not just from the sun roof. my brother in laws 93 had lots of rust too. Brian Kleins 89 has rusty floors.. have to figure a way to prevent it so we can finish building it. Kevin's SC was rusting away when nate bought it.
a few guys from MAMN12 commented about my car being fairly rust free. and me on the other hand think mine is rusting inside out. just only underneath.

but yes the MN12 are rust pr0ne. non-sunroof car are a shock as they rust in the same place as the sunroof drain would be