Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Topic: Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes. (Read 5443 times) previous topic - next topic

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

June 13, 2011, 07:42:01 PM

I have been having trouble with starting my car. Some times when I turn the key over I get nothing, other times the car starts. The times when it doesn't start I cross the solenoid with a screwdriver and it starts right up. So I'm thinking the problem is between the keyswitch and the solenoid, any common problems in this area or ideas?

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #1 – June 13, 2011, 08:30:52 PM

The ignition switch is a common and very dangerous problem (fire risk). The solenoid is also a common problem, but I'd be more concerned about the ignition switch. Replace it. Now. Disconnect your battery until you do. Or make sure you've got your fire insurance paid up. And no, I'm not exaggerating the danger. There have been many Fords reduced to ashes because of the faulty ignition switch problem. They catch fire without notice (well, other than the notice you've already been given, that the switch is dying) and can burn at any time, while in motion or not, while running or not, and with or without the key in the ignition...

As for the solenoid, it's an easy diagnosis. Take a jumper wire and place it between the large "hot" terminal on the solenoid and the small terminal with the small wire on it. If the starter cranks your solenoid is fine.

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #2 – June 14, 2011, 12:54:11 PM

other than the ignition switch mentioned above, will it start in any other gear other than neutral or between gears? could be a possibility of the safety start switch......... its worth checking

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #3 – June 17, 2011, 11:01:26 PM

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Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #4 – June 18, 2011, 06:48:21 AM

The warranty (or more accurately, the recall) only applies to 1988 and newer. And they only replace it once, so if it's been done before they won't do it again. A new switch is somewhere in the neighbourhood of $12, so it's not a big money thing anyway...

...And if the starter was bad, crossing the solenoid with a screwdriver wouldn't start it

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #5 – June 19, 2011, 10:40:00 AM

Well as for an update I have been driving the car every day now with no problem, so I don't know if the car had to for some reason "learn" the new starter solenoid I put in? Anyways I ordered a new ignition switch as well just to be safe. So hopefully the problem doesn't appear again.

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #6 – June 19, 2011, 08:15:16 PM

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Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #7 – June 20, 2011, 05:29:59 AM

Unless they changed it, I am not incorrect. When originally announced it was 1988 and later only, even though Ford vehicles dating back to 1981 used the same switch. I know quite a bit about this recall, as my own 1991 T-Bird, which caught fire, was part of the original investigation that got the recall forced upon Ford to begin with.

Oh, and for proof, check out http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.cfm - search a 1988, the recall shows up. Search a 1987 and it doesn't.

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #8 – June 20, 2011, 05:59:09 AM

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Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #9 – June 20, 2011, 07:30:11 PM

I don't know who you're trying to impress by posting your resume here, but you're not impressing me (and yet, inexplicably, here I am about to do the same to you). You may have fixed a lot of electrical problems for Ford, but I can assure you I can shake a pretty good stick at electrical issues for every manufacturer, including Ford. Believe me, there is nothing in any Ford that would compare to some of the European and puppiesanese I've worked on. I've done fire investigations for insurance companies, re-wired burned out vehicles and did electrical work on RCMP cars for a few years. In addition to repairing electrical systems I also designed and built tail light sequencers (many members of this forum have my sequencers in their cars) and police lighting equipment (LED's and flashers). I know my shiznit when it comes to wiring.

I did just what you suggested about sharing the accessory circuit out in my old T-Bird, but I went one better: I repinned the factory fuse box and added two factory Ford fuse/relay boxes from a Police Interceptor (one under the dash, one under the hood) to not only "slave" the accessory circuit, but the headlight circuit as well. I had a seperate relay for High & Low, and left & right fog (that's right, four relays just for front lighting, and there would have been six had I gone through with my plans to add daytime running lights in which the high beams run in series when the engine is running, turn off when the regular low beam headlights are turned on, and switch to parallel when the high beams are selected, but I sold the car before doing this circuit). Here's my underhood fuse box for forward lighting:

(that white thing between the two banks of relays is actually another pair of relays, which I was going to use for the DRL)

As for the slave accessory circuit the main issue is the blower motor draw going through the switch (Ford must not have believed in relays back then). I cured that mistake as shown by this wiring diagram, which I made up for the new owner of the car. I also integrated a remote starter into the new setup, because Ford's way of wiring the car also caused the 30-amp fuses in my remote starter to blow every time I remote-started the car with the blower switch in any position higher than "2". Note that in this diagram I only show parts of the circuit that were affected by the change. I did this to simplify the drawing, as there was no need to add the other circuits carried by the igntion switch, the remote starter, etc:

...But I digress, as this has nothing to do with the issue at hand (and I admit I spent much more time typing this utterly ridiculous response out than I should've, but what can I say, you struck a nerve), which is a forum member's f'd up ignition switch. If the Ford dealer you worked at fixed customer cars for free, Kudos to it. Ford's official stance, and the Government's official stance, is that the recall applies only to vehicles 1988 model year and up. These are the only vehicles Ford is obligated by law to fix, and they are only obligated to fix those vehicles once.

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #10 – June 20, 2011, 08:05:40 PM

As for my owwn involvement in that recall, it goes like this (reader's digest version; older forum members will have read it before):

Back in the mid 90's I was on my way home to Nova Scotia, Canada from Lake George, New York. I was suffering from 3rd degree sunburn over my entire upper body (baseball sized blisters covering my chest, shoulders and back) and just outside Susshag, NB, my car ('91 T-Bird) started acting up (the ex GF was driving). She pulled into a gas station, and immediately upon turning the car off smoke and flames started coming from the column. She looked at me and asked what was happening and I screamed "The car's on fire, get out!!!". She, I, and two kids in the back scrambled out and I reached in and pulled the hood cable. I opened the hood and did the stupidest thing I ever did: I pulled the battery cable off. The fire immediately went out. The fire dept showed up and ensured it was safe, then the car was towed to a local dealership. I was stranded 300 miles from home in intense pain. Luckily, the gas station was next door to a hotel.

The dealership called back the next day saying the car was fixed and that it was the wires I had run in the dash that caused the problem. I pointed out that those were speaker wires that didn't carry any current. They then said it was the ignition switch, and that they'd seen it happen a few times before. They also said that the insurance company would only pay for the damage done, not the actual cause of the fire. I called the insurance company, and I told them that unless they paid the whole shot I'd simply hook the battery back up and drive the rest of the way home (or at least try to), and that if it caught fire again I would not risk my life to put it out. They agreed to pay. I then requested that the dealership fix ONLY the ignition switch, because I wanted to see what actually burned, and I wanted them to save my parts. I picked the car up with the dash still apart and the column shroud still off, just as I had requested. My speaker wires? Not only did they not cause the fire, they weren't even damaged by it! Stupid Ford "Tech"...

So I got the car home. My insurance adjuster called and asked me to take the car to our local Ford dealership for investigation. I did so. They called me at the end of the day and first tried to blame the fire on my key chain (I carry lots of keys), saying its weight shorted the switch. I asked how that could be, when the keys go into a lock cylinder - the switch itself is further down the column and would not be affected by the weight of the keys. Surprised that I knew this, they then said they couldn't find the cause. I took the car. The next day my adjuster called back and gave me hell for taking the car! I told him the dealership called me to come get it, he said they told him the car was unsafe. I was pissed, to say the least. I had to get them to admit they told me to get the car so my insurer wouldn't drop me.

Fast forward a few months, when an item on the local news about flaming Fords caught my attention. Transport Canada and the NHTSA were investigating Ford for ignition switch fires, and anyone with any info that could help was asked to call a 1-800 number. I immediately called it, and the investigator was extremely excited that I still had the old, burned switch. So excited, in fact, that he asked me not to mail it - he'd be flying down from Ottawa personally to collect it and to photograph my car. When he showed up a few days later he was like a kid in a candy store. We talked quite a bit, and he told me that their investigations were going poorly because all of the cars that burned, REALLY burned and there was little in the way of evidence. My burned switch was like gold to him. He thanked me and just as he was leaving I asked him if there was any danger of the new switch burning. He told me that Ford was not admitting a design flaw, so the switch they installed had the same flaw as the old one. He also advised that I keep my fire insurance paid up, and that I don't park it inside a garage. I asked "Is it really that bad?" and he pointed to his rented Explorer and said "Let's put it this way - I won't even park that near my hotel".

A few months later Transport Canada announced the recall, and I believe it was shortly after that the NHTSA followed suit. Sortly afterward my burned switch showed up in the mail with a letter of thanks from the Canadian government for helping their investigation. My '91 T-Bird was called in to have the switch replaced AGAIN with a supposedly redesigned (though hindsight tells us no better) unit. To think I probably wouldn't have even bothered had the Susshag dealership not tried to blame my speaker wires and the Halifax dealership not tried to blame my keys. And I kept that old burned switch for years, though in the course of a few moves it's long since been lost.

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #11 – June 20, 2011, 10:30:07 PM

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Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #12 – June 20, 2011, 10:52:36 PM

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Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #13 – June 21, 2011, 05:21:56 AM

You know where that circuit came from? I'd be interested in finding out, since I designed and drew it myself. Wherever you claim it came from, it came from me.

As for the rest, let's review:

You said I was incorrect about the recall (even capitalized it), which I was not.
You said you know more about Ford electronics than I can shake a stick at, which you do not.
You talked down to me without knowing my background first.
Your signature said it all: "To impress people I don't know".

If you can't take it, don't dish it.

And if you want to take your toys and go home, by all means do so.

Car Won't Start with ignition sometimes.

Reply #14 – June 21, 2011, 12:05:03 PM

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