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Topic: Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 (Read 11946 times) previous topic - next topic

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #75
The internet is bad at getting the point crossed. I was not upset, but it is difficult to understand cirspoogestances through black and white text. Best way to learn is to jump right in. Nothing is better then hands on, which some direction so you are not wasting money needlessly.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #76
Quote from: Haystack;353144
The internet is bad at getting the point crossed. I was not upset, but it is difficult to understand cirspoogestances through black and white text. Best way to learn is to jump right in. Nothing is better then hands on, which some direction so you are not wasting money needlessly.

I understand. I have a hard time following some of the instructions myself.

But on a good note, I swapped out the TPS and am no longer getting a check engine light! Now all is not well yet. I was not able to reset the base idle because I don't have a tachometer of any kind, therefore when idling at a stop light, etc, the car is a little shakey and sometimes when letting off the gas today I can feel the engine sort of idle too low. If that makes sense. It stumbles, not bad, but it is noticeable. My father thinks he has a timing light/rpm light at his work, and he is going to bring it home.

So we are on the right track. I will clear codes tonight, and go from there... :)

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #77
you really need to pick up one of those cheapy buttstuffog meters they sell anywhere, tiny little meters with a needle.

if you had one of those, you would have found the tps was bad long ago.  You would have literally seen the intermittant open ckt.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #78
Quote from: jcassity;353304
you really need to pick up one of those cheapy buttstuffog meters they sell anywhere, tiny little meters with a needle.

if you had one of those, you would have found the tps was bad long ago.  You would have literally seen the intermittant open ckt.

You are right. The digital ones, although typically better, don't allow for a person to see quickly at a glance that there is an open circuit, or something else.

Now to figure out the EGR portion of this.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #79
Quote from: jpc647;353237
I understand. I have a hard time following some of the instructions myself.

But on a good note, I swapped out the TPS and am no longer getting a check engine light! Now all is not well yet. I was not able to reset the base idle because I don't have a tachometer of any kind, therefore when idling at a stop light, etc, the car is a little shakey and sometimes when letting off the gas today I can feel the engine sort of idle too low. If that makes sense. It stumbles, not bad, but it is noticeable. My father thinks he has a timing light/rpm light at his work, and he is going to bring it home.

So we are on the right track. I will clear codes tonight, and go from there... :)

The IAC is "supposed" to regulate idle speed... As long as base idle is a little less than the target speed the ECU & IAC are striving for it should be fine... Neither should cause a rough or low idle...
 

Every code 34 I've seen was caused by the sensor on the EGR actuator...

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #80
when you reset the base idle, you clear codes, unplug the iac and start it up. If it won,t stay running, throttle up you idle with the throttle stop screw until it will stau running. You can throttle your idle up or down, then when you get it to a low rpm's without it stalling, plug in the iac. The computer will set the idle where it needs to be. Go out and drive the car for 10 to 20 minutes under "normal" conditions. Making it sit to learn the idle is a myth.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #81
Quote from: Haystack;353396
when you reset the base idle, you clear codes, unplug the iac and start it up. If it won,t stay running, throttle up you idle with the throttle stop screw until it will stau running. You can throttle your idle up or down, then when you get it to a low rpm's without it stalling, plug in the iac. The computer will set the idle where it needs to be. Go out and drive the car for 10 to 20 minutes under "normal" conditions. Making it sit to learn the idle is a myth.

Sounds easy enough. I thought I had to set it with the RPM's at an exact-ish value. I can do this today. Awesome! Does the car have to be warm, cold? Probably warm seeing I have to clear codes, lol.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #82
I would do it warm. Basically, you can modify where the computer will set the idle, but if everything is working correctly and the idle screw is not adjusted too far, it will automatically set it to, or close enough it will not matter.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #83
Quote from: Haystack;353506
I would do it warm. Basically, you can modify where the computer will set the idle, but if everything is working correctly and the idle screw is not adjusted too far, it will automatically set it to, or close enough it will not matter.

Well I reset the base idle according to the procedure above. I turned the idle screw up until the car didn't stall. I drove the car around and at first noticed a stumble in the engine when coming to a stop. Gradually it cleared up, for the most part as I was driving. But when coming to a stop, the engine will slightly stumble on and off, every few seconds. Not enough to sound like it'll stall,but it's a little noticeable. I don't want to turn the idle screw up anymore, as in park the car seems to idle fairly high, well compared to what I was used to. Not enough to where the car jerks into gear or anything, but I would guess it's probably at like 1100 rpms or so. It's not as high as the car would idle when it's cold and you first start it, but more than I would expect from an idle.

Maybe now I'm looking for a vacuum leak? I checked the brake booster, I unplugged the line and put my thumb over the suction line, it didn't go away; so I think the booster is okay. I did spray penetrating oil into vacuum lines last week as jcassity suggested. I did notice the EGR vacuum regular make a "humming, or rattling" noise when I was setting the idle. When I pushed the throttle up a little to turn the screw, I could hear it. It wasn't loud loud,  but I could hear it. There was vacuum going to the Top port of the unit. Fordfuelinjection.com says this is not normal. Now I replaced all of the vacuum lines in the EGR system with softer ones, as I could not find the hard plastic lines with connectors, etc. So I know there are no vacuum leaks, and I matched them up exactly to what was there. So how do I figure out why there is vacuum there when it's not supposed to be? I know there is a code 34, the EVP above closed limits. It's an ondemand code. I changed the EVP and it didn't go away, so something is wrong before there. I wiggled the wires in the plug too, to no avail. It's looks like the TPS and the EVP are spliced into the same section of harness so I unplugged the TPS, and cleared codes. The EVP one stayed. So now I need suggestions on how to fix the EVP code.

Now I did ground the pin for the nuetral safety switch. Would this has inadvertently grounded the whole computer harness? The code didn't show up until after I changed the tps though. And it's been a few months since I grounded the nss wire. I think it would have come up before.

Unplugging the EVP does yield a code 21, EVP below minimum voltage, which makes sense.
 I know I can try some carb cleaner and spray around, but it's raining now, and I thought I would post up, and get some ideas for when it's a little drier out.


Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #85
Try another EEC and then do the base idle reset.  I have followed this method to reset the base idle on my coupe after changing the heads, changing the cam, changing the injectors, etc.  Joel is very knowledgeable and this procedure has worked on hundreds of EEC-IV cars.

http://www.my5oh.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1078

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #86
Alright. I'll do that, I just have to find another EEC.  I'm assuming one from an 86-88 tbird 5.0 will work?

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #87
Did you try the trouble shooting proceedure that I suggested in post #70 ?

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #88
Quote from: softtouch;354328
Did you try the trouble shooting proceedure that I suggested in post #70 ?

Question regarding that.I can only test it while running the KOEO test right? I'll run it, wait till its done, floor the accelerator pedal, then seeing the actuators are active, I can test by sucking air, the floor it again to check it without it activated. Tha'ts what you were trying to describe?

Now I contacted Joel over at SBFTech.com in regards to this too. The EVP wire runs through the white 10 pin connector. I have a correct VREF of 5.0 volts, and as SIG-RTN of 3.8/3.9. The SIG-RTN should be less than .67v. Therefore, I have a short somewhere.  I unplugged the 10 pin connector and got 0v for SIG-RTN and VREF which according to Joel means the problem is after the 10 pin connector, which is sorta good news.

I cut the loom back last night to find one orange wire running from the harness spliced into two orange wires, one going to the TPS one going to the EVP. At first I thought this was my problem, but it appears to be how it's supposed to be. Now for the heck of it, I grounded this wire, and tried to run EOEO test, and the check engine light just stayed on and I could hear some actuator near the trunk clicking away. So I'm probably not supposed to ground that.  But now I'm wondering if this orange wire is tied to the orange wire that we've had threads about, the one that some people ground, others dont, etc. I may try to temporarily ground it and see what happens. I'll attempt to look at the EVTM tonight and see if I can make heads or tails of it.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #89
Quote from: jpc647;354852
Question regarding that.I can only test it while running the KOEO test right? I'll run it, wait till its done, floor the accelerator pedal, then seeing the actuators are active, I can test by sucking air, the floor it again to check it without it activated. Tha'ts what you were trying to describe?

Yes. This tests whether the EEC can open and close the valve in the regulator.

Quote
The EVP wire runs through the white 10 pin connector. I have a correct VREF of 5.0 volts, and as SIG-RTN of 3.8/3.9. The SIG-RTN should be less than .67v. Therefore, I have a short somewhere.  I unplugged the 10 pin connector and got 0v for SIG-RTN and VREF which according to Joel means the problem is after the 10 pin connector, which is sorta good news.

Having 3.8/3.9 volts on the Sig-Rtn is definitely a problem.

Quote
I cut the loom back last night to find one orange wire running from the harness spliced into two orange wires, one going to the TPS one going to the EVP. At first I thought this was my problem, but it appears to be how it's supposed to be. Now for the heck of it, I grounded this wire, and tried to run EOEO test, and the check engine light just stayed on and I could hear some actuator near the trunk clicking away. So I'm probably not supposed to ground that.  But now I'm wondering if this orange wire is tied to the orange wire that we've had threads about, the one that some people ground, others dont, etc. I may try to temporarily ground it and see what happens. I'll attempt to look at the EVTM tonight and see if I can make heads or tails of it.

The 5v VREF wire is [COLOR="darkorange"]orange with white stripe[/COLOR] . Do not ground this, there is a good chance you will ZAP the EEC.
The SIG-RTN wire is Black with White stripe.