Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #60 – February 13, 2011, 03:23:47 PM Quote from: Aerocoupe;352832Has anyone suggested pulling the MAF element and cleaning it? This can be over looked and it will cause all kinds of havoc. Scratch this if the car is not a mass air car.Darren not a mass air car. :( Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #61 – February 13, 2011, 06:05:27 PM Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes. Did you check the MAP sensor vacuum line to make sure it is in good shape and does not have a leak? Did you ever put a fuel pressure gauge on the schrader valve and see what kind of pressure you are running under a load?Darren Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #62 – February 13, 2011, 07:48:33 PM he did the fuel press test under a load, readings were good from what he could tell.its in another thread. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #63 – February 13, 2011, 08:19:49 PM Quote from: Aerocoupe;352850Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes. Did you check the MAP sensor vacuum line to make sure it is in good shape and does not have a leak? Did you ever put a fuel pressure gauge on the schrader valve and see what kind of pressure you are running under a load?DarrenYup. The ac is always off when these tests are done. The test is done in park. I do not generate a code 67. I used to because the pin for that was not grounded. That's a whole different issue, and that has been fixed. I believe it was 36lbs of fuel pressure under load. I looked at the MAP sensor line, it looks okay. But I will try and find a testing procedure and test that tomorrow.Jassity is right. It was in another thread. When I first believed this was all fuel pressure related, I started a thread about what fuel pump I should buy. Only to test it with the schrader valve to find out my fuel pressure is good. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #64 – February 14, 2011, 09:12:09 AM Now this is interesting. I drove the car to work today. I had a couple of problems initially, on the highway, when moving at 45+. However, if I put the car in D, which is essentially 3rd gear, the car seems fine. At a stop light it idles a little rough, but that is only because the vacuum line to the EGR valve is disconnected. I have to find a plug for it at work today.So this problem does seem to be EGR related, now I just have to determine(with the help of all of you I think) what could be causing the code 34. I'm going to go out and test the EVP lines to check them again tonight with a multimeter, but I had a spare EVP/EGR valve that I already put on and am still getting the on demand code, so I'm thinking it's something before the valves. When trying to chase down the 63 EGR valve opening not detected code, I swapped the same EGR valve/EVP and didn't get a code. So I believe I may be looking for an electrical gremlin here, either in the computer, or in the wires going to it.I just don't know what pins/wires in the computer to check. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #65 – February 15, 2011, 12:39:51 AM Quote from: jpc647;352897I just don't know what pins/wires in the computer to check. yur killin me man,,,click on the evtm link below,, its there for you to use. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #66 – February 15, 2011, 02:05:51 AM Quote from: jpc647;352897Now this is interesting. I drove the car to work today. I had a couple of problems initially, on the highway, when moving at 45+. However, if I put the car in D, which is essentially 3rd gear, the car seems fine. At a stop light it idles a little rough, but that is only because the vacuum line to the EGR valve is disconnected. I have to find a plug for it at work today.Are you sure you have vacuum going to the EGR valve at idle? If so this is a problem.The EEC should only open the EGR when warmed-up and cruising. Not at idle, not while accelerating or not while decelerating.Put your vacuum gauge on the vac line to the EGR. Run KOER and you should see a puff of vacuum when it tries to test the EGR. Plugging the EGR vacuum line and preventing the EGR from ever opening will not cause any driveblity problemsQuoteSo this problem does seem to be EGR related, now I just have to determine(with the help of all of you I think) what could be causing the code 34. I'm going to go out and test the EVP lines to check them again tonight with a multimeter, but I had a spare EVP/EGR valve that I already put on and am still getting the on demand code, so I'm thinking it's something before the valves. EVP sensor wires:1. BR/LG sense wire to EEC pin 272. O/W reference voltage 5v from EEC pin 263. BK/W signal return (EEC's logic ground) EEC pin 46So somewhere along the way the KOER code 33 morphed into a code 34?33 is pretty simple, the valve didn't open when told to.34 is less clear. Means different things for different engines and years.If someone with an 87 shop manual can look in the Emissions Diagnosis Manual and see what it means for an 87 5.0 it may help.QuoteWhen trying to chase down the 63 EGR valve opening not detected code, I swapped the same EGR valve/EVP and didn't get a code.The 63 memory code is your TPS voltage too low. Did you try the wiggle test to see if you could create this code by tapping the wires and connectors going to the TPS?Or by gradually revving up the engine to see if you hit a bad spot in the TPS? Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #67 – February 15, 2011, 08:32:21 AM Quote from: jpc647;348468So a momentary flickering of the check engine light means a failure in the oil pump?No. If it's a real CEL, it could care less about what the oil pressure is. It's tied to the ECU, it wouldn't even know if there was oil in the engine. If it's the idiot light "ENGINE" light, like in the older cars w/o full gauges, then it's tied to the oil pressure and coolant temp. If it was an oil pump issue that was bad enough to cause a drop in power, that's the last thing it would do before making nasty noises and grinding to a halt.You might want to fill us in on what codes are there, since we can't read minds.You say it does it once a month. Ever noticed what the fuel level is? Perhaps the pump or intank hoses are going bad. Perhaps there's some floating around in the bottom of the tank that get's pushed onto the fuel pick-up. Who knows.Could be anything at this point. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #68 – February 15, 2011, 12:58:57 PM Quote from: Chuck W;352990No. If it's a real CEL, it could care less about what the oil pressure is. It's tied to the ECU, it wouldn't even know if there was oil in the engine. If it's the idiot light "ENGINE" light, like in the older cars w/o full gauges, then it's tied to the oil pressure and coolant temp. If it was an oil pump issue that was bad enough to cause a drop in power, that's the last thing it would do before making nasty noises and grinding to a halt..It is the real check engine light. The same one I pull codes from from jumping the wires on the drivers side strut tower. Quote from: Chuck W;352990 You might want to fill us in on what codes are there, since we can't read minds. . I did. Codes have been pulled multiple times. Both KOEO and KOER were done. I had a 63 and 33 for a long time, but now have a 63 and 34. Quote from: Chuck W;352990 You say it does it once a month. Ever noticed what the fuel level is? Perhaps the pump or intank hoses are going bad. Perhaps there's some floating around in the bottom of the tank that get's pushed onto the fuel pick-up. Who knows.In another thread(sorry) the fuel pump was checked. I attached a Schrader valve to the outlet on the fuel rail and drove the car around for a while. I drove it easy, and I drove it hard, harder than I normally do, and the fuel pressure was good. Lately though, it has happened more often, its almost an everyday occurrence. Again, If I floor the accelerator pedal, the car seems okay, and very light throttle, not enough to accelerate are okay, but anywhere in between the car hesitates, (I think I hear a ping), and the check engine light comes on. Quote from: softtouch;352968Are you sure you have vacuum going to the EGR valve at idle? If so this is a problem.No, there is no vacuum to the EGR valve when car is idling, I just though that because the end of the hose is open, it might cause a leak. That’s all. My mistake. .Quote from: softtouch;352968The EEC should only open the EGR when warmed-up and cruising. Not at idle, not while accelerating or not while decelerating..Alright, well judging on the code 34, being the active code, I’m guessing it’s trying to open the valve at wrong times. Is this correct?—I’m guessing here to try and troubleshoot.Quote from: softtouch;352968Put your vacuum gauge on the vac line to the EGR. Run KOER and you should see a puff of vacuum when it tries to test the EGR. Plugging the EGR vacuum line and preventing the EGR from ever opening will not cause any driveblity problems.I have a vacuum gauge buried in the garage; I will dig it out tonight and try that. Have you plugged the EGR valve personally? I should leave the EVP plugged in though, correct? Did you notice a drop in fuel economy?Quote from: softtouch;352968So somewhere along the way the KOER code 33 morphed into a code 34?33 is pretty simple, the valve didn't open when told to.34 is less clear. Means different things for different engines and years.If someone with an 87 shop manual can look in the Emissions Diagnosis Manual and see what it means for an 87 5.0 it may help..Yes, somewhere along the way, the code 33 became a code 34. I’m positive I checked the codes right. Code 33 was always there, but I think there was a hole in the vacuum line I never noticed. Could explain the code. Quote from: softtouch;352968The 63 memory code is your TPS voltage too low. Did you try the wiggle test to see if you could create this code by tapping the wires and connectors going to the TPS?Or by gradually revving up the engine to see if you hit a bad spot in the TPS?Where did you get this information? .[/QUOTE]I haven’t tried the wiggle test. I think one problem, was I confused the code 33 and the 63. What I mean by that is I thought code 33 was the TPS one and code 63 the EGR valve one. This may have been part of the problem in communicating with haystack. I got a new TPS, I’ll swap it tonight, and do my best to reset the base idle. That should take care of code 63.Quote from: jcassity;352957yur killin me man,,,click on the evtm link below,, its there for you to use. I'm going to admit it, I can't read the schematics. Embarrassing as that is to admit, it's true. I'm sorry if sometimes I am unclear of what I'm asking or saying. I don't know very much about cars, and am just trying to fix this one. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #69 – February 15, 2011, 05:51:34 PM There is another self test tool you may want to try. It is called "output state check". It allows you to activate and deactivate all the solenoids the EEC controls.I am using 84 shop manual info which is before they had a check engine light. It says it also toggles the self test STO circuit. In your case it should also toggle the check engine light on and off.Run KOEO. Wait until it has finished outputting codes. Now you push the throttle to WOT to activate the solenoids, push it again to deactivate etc.Your EGR Vacuum Regulator has a red wire which is hot with the key on and a green wire that the EEC grounds to activate the solenoid.See if you can back probe the green wire without disconnecting it from the regulator. It should show 12v when deactivated and ground when activated.The solenoid in the regulator operates two valves. One to apply vacuum to the EGR vacuum line when the solenoid is activated, and one to let air into the EGR vacuum line when the solenoid is deactivated. So it is important that the vacuum lines at the regulator not be reversed.Get a spare piece of vacuum line from your junk collection to test with.Take both vac lines off the regulator. With the solenoid deactivated: You should not be able to suck air through the regulator from the vacuum tree side.You should be able to suck air through the EGR side. Put your finger over the Vac tree side to verify the air IS NOT coming from over there.With the solenoid activated:Suck air through the EGR side and put your finger over the vac tree side to verify the air IS coming from that side.Hope this is not too confusing.Oh yeah, I ran my 84 3.8 with the EGR vac line disconnected and plugged with no ill effect. Don't know about gas milage, not something I worry about. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #70 – February 15, 2011, 09:15:27 PM Quote from: jpc647;353005It I'm going to admit it, I can't read the schematics. Embarrassing as that is to admit, it's true. . well,, ,,I didnt know that.Dont feel bad, it not easy until you have someone show you how to read them.sorry, Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #71 – February 15, 2011, 11:06:59 PM Hey guy, now we are getting somewhere. Instead of checking resistance on the ground, let's do this. Take your volt meter, put it in the resistance setting. When your two leads are touching each other, it should read 1.0 or just one. Your resistance will go down the longer the wire travels, or disappear completely if the wire is bad/cut. Extend one of your leads so that it will reach the plug to the sensor, and check your resistance when you have the wire long enough to reach, by touching the regular length lead to the wired extension. Once that reading is read, try to use that as a baseline. This is now 100% accurate, but if you have a bad wire, you will know.Now, unplug the computer and test the pins to the connector wire and check you resistance. This will tell you if you have any broken wires. There is also a chance that the wires could be crossed, or touching each other. This is why you check voltages on sensors.So, on your car, find the pin that connects to your egr. Check resistance between those wires and there corresponding pin. If you have a bad wire, you will at least know what you are looking for. Then we can explain the evmt to you and help you from there. Do not be afraid to ask. We would like to help you. I will not rake you over the coals as long as you are willing to learn. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #72 – February 15, 2011, 11:17:11 PM Also, to check the tps, test the voltage while it is hooked up. Peirce the wire with a small finishing nail and keep your lead one thenail or pin or what ever you Peirce the wire with. Slowly run the throttle up by hand ans it should gradually increase in voltage. You can read other threads, probably one of your own I already link the small block ford tech article to you in. If your voltage checks out, do the base idle reset. The only real problem with this, is you should not have any vacuum leaks. Id you have any, it will not stick or it will rev up and down at idle.Sorry if I have not been alot of help, and please excuse my spelling. I have only been able to get online here with my cell and it has a bunch of auto spelling features, and how hard it is to use the forum with 10 buttons and a 3 inch screen. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #73 – February 16, 2011, 04:17:52 PM Quote from: Haystack;353064Also, to check the tps, test the voltage while it is hooked up. Peirce the wire with a small finishing nail and keep your lead one thenail or pin or what ever you Peirce the wire with. Slowly run the throttle up by hand ans it should gradually increase in voltage. You can read other threads, probably one of your own I already link the small block ford tech article to you in. If your voltage checks out, do the base idle reset. The only real problem with this, is you should not have any vacuum leaks. Id you have any, it will not stick or it will rev up and down at idle.Sorry if I have not been alot of help, and please excuse my spelling. I have only been able to get online here with my cell and it has a bunch of auto spelling features, and how hard it is to use the forum with 10 buttons and a 3 inch screen.Thank you. I understand. I was worried you were mad at me for well being dumb. It's not that I disregard what you say, I just don't understand certain things, and when I ask questions, I seem to make everything more confusing. Part of the problem is a do a lot of the responses at work, and I have to be quick. I got another TPS now, and hopefully tonight I can do the idle reset. The only potential vacuum leak I think I fixed. We'll see. Quote Selected
Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 Reply #74 – February 16, 2011, 08:57:54 PM Knowledge is power. Don't be intimidated by the schematics because they tell all. I spend hours looking at them! Quote Selected
Topic: Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 (Read 11945 times)
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Topic: Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 (Read 11945 times)
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