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Topic: Column - turn signal wires (Read 2303 times) previous topic - next topic

Column - turn signal wires

I'm trying to find the left and right turn signal wires to wire up to my sequential lights so they don't sequence when pressing the brake but I can't seem to find them. There are three wires at the top of the column that all flash with the flasher, no matter which side is turned on. Which wires, and where are they located, contain power when the left or right turn signals are on? I need to tap into these.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #1 –
Light Blue Wire - From Turn Signal Flasher To Multi Function Switch To Be Split To Lights
Light Green Wire - From Stop Light Switch To Multi Function Switch To Be Split To Lights
Light Green With Orange Stripe Wire - Left Rear Turn/Stop Lights (Trailer Also)
Light Green With Red Hash Marks Wire - Power To Stop Light Switch
Light Green With White Stripe Wire - Left Front Turn Signal & Indicator
Orange With Light Blue Stripe Wire - Right Rear Turn/Stop Lights (Trailer Also)
Purple With Orange Hash Marks Wire - Hot In Run From Fuse Block To Turn Signal Flasher
Red With White Hash Marks Wire - Hot At All Times To Hazard Flasher
White With Light Blue Stripe Wire - Right Front Turn Signal And Indicator
White With Red Hash Marks Wire - From Hazard Flasher To Multi Function Switch To Be Split To Lights

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #2 –
So LG/W and W/LB. Thanks!
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Seek;336372
So LG/W and W/LB. Thanks!

Those wire colors you listed are for the front turn signal lamps.
 
Rear turn signal lamps are Light Green/Orange for the left rear turn signal and Orange/Light Blue for right turn signal.
 
Keep in mind all the turn signal wires from the turn signal switch only supply intermittent flashing voltage. It is not a constant voltage. The way the circuit is set up is that it gets 12V+ switched from the ignition switch then it goes through the flasher first, then to the turn signal switch. The turn signal switch directs the flashing current left or right depending on which way the turn signal switch is positioned.
 
The turn signal switch is designed with multiple contacts. When the turn signal is activated it closes off the current from the brake lamp switch so the flashing current can use the circuit on the side that is being activated as a turn signal. There is never contant current ever going through the turn signal circuit as it will always flash since the current goes through the turn signal flasher first then to the switch. This is why optional front cornering lamps have those additional relays to keep the cornering lamps from flashing.
 
The hazard flasher is also designed so that current from the brake lamp switch is closed off and flashing current is switched on and directed to both sides of the turn signal circuit at the same time.
 
With your turn signal sequencer module it is designed only to sequence the brake lamps one time with the constant current supllied from the brake lamp switch, or continuously sequence the intermittant current from the turn signal flasher.
 
There are more sophisticated turn signal sequencer modules out there for Mustangs that have the circuitry built into the module that allows the brake lamps to come on without sequencing.
 
In order to get your brake lamps to come on and not sequence it has to bypass the sequencer module. You cannot just hook up constant voltage from the brake lamps to the taillamps. In order to do what you want to do, there has to be a way to isolate the brake lamp circuit from the turn signal circuit. The turn signal switch manages all this with the multiple contacts. If you were to tie the brake lamp current directly to the brake lamps bypassing the sequencer module, you would likely short out the sequencer module and end up blowing both the brake lamp fuse and turn signal fuse.

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #4 –
I'm not sure which sequential set up he is using, but the "WEB ELECTRIC" set up has circuitry built in to deal with non sequencing brake lamps by hooking to the signal indicators on the dash  :D


http://www.webelectricproducts.com/products.htm


 go to the online instructions and it shows how to wire it
Fox-less at the moment

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Watchdevil;336384
Those wire colors you listed are for the front turn signal lamps.
 
Rear turn signal lamps are Light Green/Orange for the left rear turn signal and Orange/Light Blue for right turn signal.
 


Rear wires are turn AND brake according to the above wiring diagram - those wires aren't for turn signal only so they are useless to me. I need to tap into turn signal only wires for the webelectric sequencers. It'd be nice if they worked off of the brake pedal instead since that is actually what we're trying to control and it's easier to wire up to but I think different cars handle their brake pedal switches and such differently so the design looks for turn signal indication instead which the instrument cluster lights do provide, shared with the same LG/W and W/LB as the front signals.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Seek;336390
Rear wires are turn AND brake according to the above wiring diagram - those wires aren't for turn signal only so they are useless to me. I need to tap into turn signal only wires for the webelectric sequencers. It'd be nice if they worked off of the brake pedal instead since that is actually what we're trying to control and it's easier to wire up to but I think different cars handle their brake pedal switches and such differently so the design looks for turn signal indication instead which the instrument cluster lights do provide, shared with the same LG/W and W/LB as the front signals.

I am not certain how you plan to isolate your brake lamp function from your turn signal function when the bulb sockets in the taillamps only have one "hi" connection and filament and both turn signals and brake lamps share the same bulbs. Function of the brake lamp current HAS to be isolated and diconnected through switching for the turn signals to flash, with or without a turn signal sequencer.
 
For cars that have seperate and dedicated turn signal sockets and bulbs, the brake lamp circuit is simply not connected into the turn signal circuit in the turn signal switch. It bypasses the turn signal switch and goes directly to the dedicated brake lamp bulbs. This is how high mounted stop lamps function with no interference from the turn signal flashing operation.

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Watchdevil;336394
I am not certain how you plan to isolate your brake lamp function from your turn signal function when the bulb sockets in the taillamps only have one "hi" connection and filament and both turn signals and brake lamps share the same bulbs. Function of the brake lamp current HAS to be isolated and diconnected through switching for the turn signals to flash, with or without a turn signal sequencer.
 
For cars that have seperate and dedicated turn signal sockets and bulbs, the brake lamp circuit is simply not connected into the turn signal circuit in the turn signal switch. It bypasses the turn signal switch and goes directly to the dedicated brake lamp bulbs. This is how high mounted stop lamps function with no interference from the turn signal flashing operation.


It appears that the isolation circuit is built in to the module that Web Electric makes , but I could be wrong.
 Best I can tell ,by wiring it to the indicators it only allows the module to sequence when the turn signal is on
Fox-less at the moment

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #8 –
Quote from: hypostang;336397
Best I can tell ,by wiring it to the indicators it only allows the module to sequence when the turn signal is on

This is true - the fronts will light up on high only when the turn signal is on (and of course, not when the brake lights are on), so it can be tapped into to provide the signal to the sequencers of when the turn signals are on, versus the other times when the brakes may be on (like it would show if you tapped into the rear bulb wires).

The difference of the front turn signals only being on when using the turn signals and never turning on when the brakes are pressed allows us to know if the power being fed to the rear lights is brake or signal. I understand that both are going down the same wire, from the front of the car but I'm not worried about that.

The indicators that hypostang is talking about is fed from the exact same wire as the front lights, as per the diagram from Watchdevil.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #9 –
Quote from: hypostang;336397
It appears that the isolation circuit is built in to the module that Web Electric makes , but I could be wrong.
Best I can tell ,by wiring it to the indicators it only allows the module to sequence when the turn signal is on

The new updated WebElectric Sequencers have Smart Sequence technology to keep the lamps from sequencing when the brakes are on and will only sequence the taillamp that is activated for a turn signal. They also automatically adjust the flash rate according to the speed of the flasher.
 
These WebElectric Sequencers are plug and play with no modifications.

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #10 –
Quote from: hypostang;336397
It appears that the isolation circuit is built in to the module that Web Electric makes , but I could be wrong.
Best I can tell ,by wiring it to the indicators it only allows the module to sequence when the turn signal is on

The isolation circuit is built into the new updated Web Electric sequencer modules.

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Seek;336451
This is true - the fronts will light up on high only when the turn signal is on (and of course, not when the brake lights are on), so it can be tapped into to provide the signal to the sequencers of when the turn signals are on, versus the other times when the brakes may be on (like it would show if you tapped into the rear bulb wires).
 
The difference of the front turn signals only being on when using the turn signals and never turning on when the brakes are pressed allows us to know if the power being fed to the rear lights is brake or signal. I understand that both are going down the same wire, from the front of the car but I'm not worried about that.
 
The indicators that hypostang is talking about is fed from the exact same wire as the front lights, as per the diagram from Watchdevil.

 
You still have not established how you intend to isolate the brake lamps from your turn signal lamp circuit. If you tap into the front turn signal lamp wires, the wires still run to the sequencer which in turn goes to the bulb sockets. When you step on the brake they will be running through the existing wires directly to the same bulb sockets. The way you are proposing, as soon as you step on the brakes, the turn signals will never sequence during any turn signal and you will now be sending the current from the brake lamps backwards into the sequencer module.

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #12 –
From what I understand with the wiring you are proposing, this is the circuit you will end up with which will keep the left taillamp on constant without sequencing during a left turn signal and brakes on at the same time.

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #13 –
In his first message Seek did not establish that he was using WebElectric Sequencers with the built in brake lamp anti-sequencing circuitry. This did not become appaent until post #5, so I was quite confused thinking that he was using some other brand sequencer that did not have the anti-sequence option for the brake lamps.
 
Most other manufactured brake lamp sequencers do not have the ability to keep the brake lamps from sequencing. I bought a set for my 08 Mustang and and the brake lamps sequence once and stay on. However I actually do like that feature better than for all the brake lamp bulbs coming on at once.
 
However I would not mind one of WebElectric's newer sequencers for my car that control the sequencing rate. I would like them to sequence slower.
 
Anyway I cleaned up and deleted some erroneous posts from this thread so it reads better.

Column - turn signal wires

Reply #14 –
overcomplicating it seek

use an inexpensive radio shack micro switch mounted to your brake pedal ,,:D
im sure you can figure it out from here,,getting the switch to provide the ground to the brake signal should be easy now.

just did this last month to a car.

diagrams here>
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f162/jcassity_bucket/