87 cougar check engine light

Topic: 87 cougar check engine light (Read 2716 times) previous topic - next topic

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #15 – March 04, 2010, 01:36:03 AM

i knew you were smart,, but didnt know you would do something that dumb.:hick:

instead you could have typed "pull codes" in the seach bar and found this.......

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=27140&highlight=pulling+codes&page=3

ever put a resistor and capacitor in parallel? thats the simple version of what you got, and RC time constant of 3 sec for a cost of prob (whatcha got layin around on old circuit boards).

seriously though, pulling codes is easy and you dont need the check engine light either although one option of pulling codes uses the check engine light.

If ever a shop pulls the codes, they will find the timer.

Ill bet CA would have some way of getting away with pulling codes to verify things during an inspection.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #16 – March 04, 2010, 04:47:04 PM

That's cool, You beat the system!. You got to do what you got to do.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #17 – March 05, 2010, 04:11:15 AM

Quote from: Imsickofweed;312583

Why spend time and money fixing problems when I can just use my superior electrical knowledge to bypass this pesky check engine light?

Im AWESOME!!!

Surely, a simple bulb wouldn't be beyond your "superior electrical knowledge" to fix, now, would it?

Run the codes, find out the possibilities, and you'll probably see that putting the timer in was a waste of time. As was posting about it. As was reading, and replying to it.

Why band-aid a problem, when it's probably an easy fix, especially to an Electrical Einstein like yourself?

Do you have any relatives that work at a Shell gas station, or as an Air Traffic Controller? :flip:

OK, all b.s. aside, seriously, check the codes. please.
and let us know what you find.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #18 – March 05, 2010, 04:59:04 PM

I ran the codes and this is what I got.
24 intake/vane air temperwture sensor out of range.
94 air system inoperative
transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem.
44 air system inoperative.
31 EVP out of range.

The only one I really understand is 24, the rest are pretty vauge and potentially exspensive sounding.

By the way, I'm not related to anyone who works at a gas station because I'm not an Indian (dot, or feather), or a terrorist (Islamic variety). I'm not related to anyone who is an ATC either but I think its more important not to be related to a gas station employee, even if it is a nice one like shell.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #19 – March 06, 2010, 01:43:18 AM

24 ACT (Air Charge Temperature) sensor. Called manifold charge temp sensor in the pic.

31 EVP (Egr Valve Position) sensor.
44 Thermactor Air
94 Thermactor Air
If the above three codes are all KOER (Key On Engine Running) codes, I am guessing you may have lost vacuum to the row of five solenoids in the second pic. These are solenoid controlled vacuum valves. They are located under the radiator expansion tank.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #20 – March 06, 2010, 08:29:15 AM

The codes were obtained using the paperclip method and counting the blinks from the check engine light while the engine was running. I was sure to bring the engine up to normal temperature before I shut it off, connected the paperclip, and restarted to count the blinks. Does it make a difference which method I use? Would I get different codes? Thanks for the diagnosis and pictures. Hopefully it sounds like all I need is a new ACT sensor and some vacuum lines to the solenoids.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #21 – March 06, 2010, 11:44:57 AM

You get the same codes no matter what method you use.
However there are three categories of codes. It can be helpful to know which category they are.
1. KOEO (Key ON Engine Off): Runs tests and reports results.(on demand codes)
2. Then after a pause and a one pulse separator it reads out the codes stored in the KAM (Keep Alive Memory) These are stored while driving. They may be intermittents.
These codes can be reset by removing the jumper while the codes are reading out, or disconnecting the battery. Disconnecting the battery resets some other stuff in the KAM and it may idle and run poorly until it reestablishes its' tables in the KAM. If you replace any sensors you do want to disconnnect the battery.

3. KOER engine running codes.

With KOEO you should have 4-6 volts across the two wires to the ACT sensor.
The resistance of the sensor should be between 1.1K and 58K ohms. The resistance increases as it warms up.

You can find the color code of the vacuum line for the solenoids on the decal on the fan shroud.
I'm just guessing on the missing vacuum. Trying t find one solution to multiple problems.

Run KOEO codes and see what you get.

There is a vacuum reservior black plastic can that is teed into the vacuum line to the solenoids. On my 84 it is just below the windshield washer filler hole.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #22 – March 06, 2010, 01:14:44 PM

the EVP is the sensor atop the egr valve. when you take it off, you'll completly understand whats going on. A vaccuum diaphram moves and pushes the variable resistor pin which changes the voltage drop.

At the solenoid bank behind the coolant fill tank,
trace the locate the green connection and undo it. put vac on the end and see how long it takes for the vac pres to bleed off. if it bleeds off inside of 5sec,, the line is jacked up.

Repeat above steps to test the vac diaphram at the egr,, if there is a hole in the diaphram, the diaphram cant move so the evp sensor cant change values.

repeat the above for the:
tan and black vac lines- goes to the pass side smog tubing
red vac line- goes to the engine intake dead center rear but it also Tee's off to another connection which you can isolate

In a nutshell, you want to find one end of the vac line, then cap off the other, add vac presure or suction to one end and see if its holding suction.

along the coolant fill tank there is a white vaccuum parrallel tube which all lines come to. there is a possibility that its cracked which is common to all of the solenoids behind the coolant fill tank.

here is some other stuff..........all the below results are with the car in its static state, meaning no power applied.
=============================
EGR/emissions solenoids (codes)
Dual Thermactor Air control Solenoid Valve- both should read 51-108 ohms
EGR Solenoid Vacuum Valve Assembly - both should read 32 to 64 ohms
EGR Valve Position Sensor EVP (OR/W to brn/ltgrn resistance is 5.5k with no vac and 100ohms with vac)(4-6vdc on VREF or/wht)
Electronic Vacuum Regulator EVR 30 to 70 ohms (koeo voltage is about 10.5vdc)

============================\
EGR test and EVP sensor test
apply vac pres to egr vac line fitting.
if it holds the diaphram for a long time,, the diaphram is good
remove carbon buildup on egr base as well as egr base plate assy for 3.8l engines

EVP test (egr sensor)
wire id...
EEC PIN 26 "VREF" orange/white (parallels off to map)
EEC PIN 27 "EVP SIGNAL" brown/light green
EEC PIN 46 "SIG Return" black/white (parallels off to self test conn)

disconnect vac line
disconnect elec conn
hook ohm meter up to the VREF adn EVP Sig contacts
hook up vac guage or apply vac to egr
ohm meter should start out at about 5.5k ohms.
as vac is increased to max, resistance should bottom out to no less than 100ohms.

key on, engine off
cap off vac fitting on evp sensor
measure for 4 to 6 volts dc between VREF and SIGNAL RETURN (ground)
______________________________
ECT sensor test feeds the computer
Resistance test pin to pin of the sensor (this is a variable resister proportional to temperature including outside air temp if the motor is cold)
at 50degF=58K ohms
at 65degF=40K ohms
at 180degF=3.6K ohms
at 220degF=1.8K ohms

next clean the end of the sensor with scotch brite ect and retest
if high temps persist, replace coolant temp sensor and ECT as a matched set.
if that does not work, start looking at your coolant system parts.
----------------------
ACT sensor test ,,,feeds the computer
Resistance test pin to pin of the sensor (this is a variable resister proportional to temperature including outside air temp if the motor is cold)
at 50degF=58K ohms
at 65degF=40K ohms
at 180degF=3.6K ohms
at 220degF=1.8K ohms

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #23 – March 12, 2010, 02:55:05 PM

My '87 doesn't even HAVE a check engine light (wiring doesn't even exist). Was this a CA only "option" in '87???

Just curious.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #24 – March 22, 2010, 04:12:49 AM

Possibly, maybe someome removed the light like on mine. The check engine light is a small bulb with a socket that twists into a plastic socket with a printed circuit ribbon in between. Its on the lower left side of the dash. I was told that the check engine light is standard on all Cougars that year, so if youre really curious, remove the left dash cover and see if the sockets and printed ribbon is there.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #25 – March 22, 2010, 05:04:01 PM

according to literature i have in storage(yea, not on me at the moment) it stated only half of the 87 cars had a functional check engine light even though they are present and have been since 86 or so . they werent wired in on 86 cars but all 88+ had a funtional check engine light.
your car doesnt likely have a functioning one.
tomorrow after work ill grab the book and see if something in it will help you with your emissions overlords.

edit: grabbed the book but it doesnt state a specific bulliten number or anything usefull in that sense.
but, it does say that pretty much all cars(not trucks) with everything but 5.0s had a check engine light, 3.8 included.
that they were not all functional untill 88 and up. never had a 5.0 anything so i dont know about that.
weird.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #26 – March 24, 2010, 05:33:31 PM

Hmmmm, I did have the cluster out for the speedo mod, and don't recall if the ribbon is in place for a light or not. I don't think so, but I don't recall for sure. The socket is there IIRC.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #27 – March 26, 2010, 06:14:04 PM

87's had the light. As far as I know. unless someone took it out! Like me, got tired of seeing it on, when I know it has nothing to do with my emissions. That I don't have no more. I can't really say I'm running green either. I'm really not goin to comply either for some what like 400 miles a year. If my car was original "then maybe I would". Maybe!

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #28 – March 27, 2010, 03:01:13 PM

ran codes on two 86 5.0's in the past using a paper clip and the check engine light, as well as my 87 5.0, so this information is not correct.

87 cougar check engine light

Reply #29 – March 27, 2010, 08:44:31 PM

Quote from: Haystack;316082

ran codes on two 86 5.0's in the past using a paper clip and the check engine light, as well as my 87 5.0, so this information is not correct.

if what you say is true thats very dissappointing :/
does anyone have an 86 5.0 "right now" and can verify this, i would hate to have a paper resource for info that is totally worthless by being so incorrect.
i know my 86 3.8 didnt have a funtional CEL by the factory, neither did the other 86 i had.