Engine codes, how to fix

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Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #45 – January 08, 2010, 03:48:26 PM

Okay, you'r right, I'm sorry. After checking it is plugged in, what can I do? I remember I told you I could shift the car without a key(floor shift car) and you asked if it was jumpered or bypassed.. I don't think it is, it doesn't seem to be under the car. Where else could it be, or what else should I check. It would appear this is the problem, and somehow also related to the fast that I can shift it ouf of gear without the key on, I would imagine.. I'm sorry if I sound dumb, I just don't know how to proceed.

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #46 – January 08, 2010, 10:47:41 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;304941

You can get a code 67 with incorrect voltage.

AOD NSS for starter control, pin 30 gets its ground reading (to id in-neutral state) through the starter solenoid coil and the ground from the solenoid body to the fender apr0n..... the starter doesn't work in any gear position but P or N..... the problem could be in the wiring from the ignition switch to pin 30. In park or neutral it SHOULD see 12 vdc at the pin.

The signal MAY be shorted to ign. on.....

Ok, after studying the EVTMs for 84,85,86 and 87 you are correct about ground being applied to ECU pin 30 through the start relay coil and the NSS.
However this only applies to the 2.3 and 3.8 engines.

Pin 30 is not used on the 5.0

The OP says this is an 88 3.8 that has an 87 5.0 installed.
The question is, were the 87 ECU and cable harness transferred to this car?
I don't have an 88 EVTM to check if his ignition switch has wire to pin 30. If it does maybe it should be cut.

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #47 – January 09, 2010, 05:17:02 AM

softtouch,
The 87 ECU is in the car. The only wires transfered to the car were the ones that run from the ECU out the firewall, across the firewall and plug in at the driver side firewall. Everything seemed to plug right it. What do you mean by cable harness? I can try to look up in my 88 EVTM. Thanks for the trouble of looking it up. :)

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #48 – January 09, 2010, 10:38:48 AM

Quote

Pin 30 is not used on the 5.0

The OP says this is an 88 3.8 that has an 87 5.0 installed.

I was looking at 5.0 diagrams.

Here are 2 specifically for Mustangs......

88-91

91-93

[SIZE="6"]The following is for an 86-88 Cougar/Thunderbird 5.0[/SIZE]

Take note of PIN 30 in the very bottom left of the electronic control assembly. Now see the following:

From what I understand, the chassis wiring SHOULD be the same.....
Looking at all the Cougarbird specific stuff; I can not figure out where pin 30 ties into the charging system.....Anybody got a pic of the ignition switch schematics?

Softtouch, would this mean between the wiring diagram for the 86-88 5.0 and the EVTM that there is a discrepancy? I have the EVTM on hard drive.......on my OTHER PC....

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #49 – January 09, 2010, 01:15:14 PM

Just to eliminate another possibility, i checked the voltages to the battery. 12.73v with everything off and the car off. 14.73v with the car running. 14.65 with the radio and heater, 14.48 v with the lights radio and heater fan on, 12.67 with the radio heater rear window defrost and the lights. Reving the car with the lights radio and heater on doesn't change the voltage.

So it appears the battery is fine, and the alternator is doing what it should. It appears this pin 30 problem might be the problem. Later on this evening I can look through my EVTM and see if I can find the discrepancy. If it isn't figured out by someone smarter first. lol

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #50 – January 09, 2010, 01:41:39 PM

V8Demon,
Yes there is a descrepancy.
On the 3.8 start circuit a Y/R wire #376 goes from the ignition switch to the EEC.
On the 5.0 start circuit, no wire.
On the 3.8 EEC, Y/R wire #376 goes through C315 to a diode then a R/LB wire #32 to EEC pin30

No pin 30 is shown on the 5.0 EEC. (did not scan the 5.0 EEC)

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #51 – January 09, 2010, 04:00:23 PM

Quote

Yes there is a discrepancy.

That's disturbing. That diagram is specific to our cars....the O2 sensor harness wire colors are TOTALLY different on a Mustang for one.....

JPC647: Is this car Mass Air or speed density now?

What is the ENGINE HARNESS from? Vehicle make and year for the harness?

Softtouch: Does the EVTM show ANYTHING on how the 5.0 ties into the actual ECU via the charging system? I DO have it, but truth be told I'm not too adroit at navigating through it.

*EDIT*

I see it. Go to page 54 in the EVTM. Im gonna hook up the other PC and take a look.

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #52 – January 09, 2010, 08:56:52 PM

The engine harness is from a 1988 cougar/thunderbird. I think it was a cougar, but I'm not sure. The car, I believe is speed density, its a stock 5.0 out of an 87 thunderbird, no modifications.

Does this mean I have an extra wire connected to the ECU? and if so, any idea under what conditions it would make a difference? The idle doesn't always stumble, just sometimes. Any reason for this?

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #53 – January 10, 2010, 03:19:02 PM

I looked in my EVTM, I'm really not sure what to look for, anyone else know? I'm confused here in a bunch of diagrams.

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #54 – January 10, 2010, 08:52:26 PM

Is there a wire currently running to PIN 30 on your ECU?

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #55 – January 10, 2010, 09:43:50 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;305900

Is there a wire currently running to PIN 30 on your ECU?

I can't really tell. I mean made the kick panel loose and tipped it out to look in. Without taking the computer out, and taking the black cap off(which has pr0ngs on both sides that need to be pushed out for the cap to to removed). I don't mind checking, it just isn't something I can do right away.

My question is, if it is wired to pin 30, wouldn't the problem happen all the time? Or is this just to clear the code? I mean the idle hunt doesn't happen all the time, but every time I run codes I get 67. If something is going right to the computer, wouldn't it cause the problem all the time? Does this question make sense? What is this causing to happen? I'm confused, I will try to check the computer tomorrow though.

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #56 – January 14, 2010, 10:42:29 AM

Quote

My question is, if it is wired to pin 30, wouldn't the problem happen all the time? Or is this just to clear the code? I mean the idle hunt doesn't happen all the time, but every time I run codes I get 67. If something is going right to the computer, wouldn't it cause the problem all the time?

Not necessarily. The short/open circuit COULD be intermittent. The VSS may not be the root of your idle issue, but you should eliminate it from the list of possibilities.... If it were me, I'd pull that ECU out and have a look at the 60 pin connector.

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #57 – January 14, 2010, 05:17:52 PM

pin 60? I thought pin 30 was the one in question?

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #58 – January 14, 2010, 05:49:41 PM

The connector itself has 60 total pins and is called the 60 PIN connector.

Engine codes, how to fix

Reply #59 – May 21, 2010, 03:45:51 PM

Alright, I retested codes, and got code 29 tonight. That is the Vehicle Speed Sensor issue. After having a near accident today because the car revved up randomly, I pulled the ecu harness wires off of the ecm. I have attached pictures of what I see. I believe there is infact, a Wire connected to pin 30. I included the diagram of the 60 pin connector someone else previously posted, just for reference. It appears a brown with white stripe wire is going to pin 30. Match up the plastic tabs on the picture I took, to the one of the diagram for reference.

Should I cut it? Suggestions now?