1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

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1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

September 03, 2009, 08:19:47 PM

I have a 1983 T-bird. 5.0 engine, with a crank sensor and a distributor that can only go 1 way. I can't seem to get the timing rotor to point at #1 cylinder. It points, near it, but doesn't line up exactly. The car runs and I was wondering if there was any other way to adjust the timing, or if there is a certain way it has to be done. It also at 0 on the balancer. If I advance the distributor the car runs better but I don't think that's right. Is there a certain way to set the timing on that setup?

Thanks in advance.

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #1 – September 03, 2009, 11:09:11 PM

i think you need some kind of little tool to align the distributor top part properly if it doesnt match up, im pretty sure i read that in one of my books. if i find it ill give more detail.

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #2 – September 07, 2009, 04:43:03 PM

Quote from: mrx;289791

I have a 1983 T-bird. 5.0 engine, with a crank sensor and a distributor that can only go 1 way. I can't seem to get the timing rotor to point at #1 cylinder. It points, near it, but doesn't line up exactly.

If it is a little past centering up perfectly it is ok. When the EEC III advances the spark the coil will fire earlier when the rotor is more centered.

Quote

The car runs and I was wondering if there was any other way to adjust the timing, or if there is a certain way it has to be done. It also at 0 on the balancer. If I advance the distributor the car runs better but I don't think that's right. Is there a certain way to set the timing on that setup?

Thanks in advance.

Sorry! there is no timing adjustment on your car. The 10° advanced base timing is set by the relationship between the crank position sensor and the harmonic balancer.
The EEC III will control advancing it more than 10°.

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #3 – September 07, 2009, 06:11:16 PM

It may very well be that distributor's been replaced before. If so, it's not uncommon for folks to drop it in with the shaft turned one tooth off or more. As long as the housing can turned for the base of 10 degrees, no big worries. In fact, on my 3.8L, the factory position was such that the connector for the TFI was digging into the upper radiator hose, and actually caused a leak. I solved this by re-stabbing the dizzy with the rotor turned off by one tooth, intentionally. As long as you maintain the proper timing and firing order, it doesn't really matter which direction the dizzy is turned, as long as it will mechanically fit in the hole. I've turned the housing 90 degrees on my VW and swapped the plug wires around on the cap because the condensor (capacitor across points) washiznitting an aftermarket throttle linkage. Doesn't really matter what direction the rotor is pointed for #1 cylinder as long as the right plug wire is connected to the electrode near that position, and the base timing is set for 10 degrees.

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #4 – September 07, 2009, 08:12:13 PM

Quote from: Old_Paint;290277

It may very well be that distributor's been replaced before. If so, it's not uncommon for folks to drop it in with the shaft turned one tooth off or more. As long as the housing can turned for the base of 10 degrees, no big worries. In fact, on my 3.8L, the factory position was such that the connector for the TFI was digging into the upper radiator hose, and actually caused a leak. I solved this by re-stabbing the dizzy with the rotor turned off by one tooth, intentionally. As long as you maintain the proper timing and firing order, it doesn't really matter which direction the dizzy is turned, as long as it will mechanically fit in the hole. I've turned the housing 90 degrees on my VW and swapped the plug wires around on the cap because the condensor (capacitor across points) washiznitting an aftermarket throttle linkage. Doesn't really matter what direction the rotor is pointed for #1 cylinder as long as the right plug wire is connected to the electrode near that position, and the base timing is set for 10 degrees.

His gears could be a tooth off. If it is he will have to get it in the right tooth.
He has a Duraspark III ignition system. The base of the distributor cannot be turned. There is no stator or hall effect emitter to effect timing.

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #5 – September 09, 2009, 09:16:47 AM

Here is an interesting read on Duraspark III ignition.
http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1c/bl702c.htm

dist alignment.

Reply #6 – September 10, 2009, 10:17:11 PM

the dist appears to be a duraspark III setup .but the cap and rotor are
for a conventional dist. the car runs, and did run until the timing chain
ped out . now i'm totally confused..i pulled the dist to make sure i had oil pressure. so now i'm trying to sort the dist timing problem out before i can go any further. also how would i align the dist properly? without the dist alignment tool.. again thanks in advance..

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #7 – September 11, 2009, 01:22:21 PM

ok, according to what im reading here you dont need the tool to align he cap and rotor
rotate the motor untill the timing mark on the balancer points at 5 degrees atdc(+4degrees whatever that means) and make sure your on the compression stroke for #1 cyl.
remove the dist. cap.
release the retaining clips from the dist. cap adaptor. pull it up without using the lifting tab on the rotor.
reinstall the adaptor on the dist. and visually line it up with the slots in the shaft sleeve with the alignment slot on the adaptor.
align the arrow on the rotor with the large slot in the sleeve and press it into place.

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #8 – September 11, 2009, 04:39:33 PM

The alignment slot in shaft that the rotor goes on is bigger on one side. The big side should line up with the alignment slot in the distributor adapter when #1 is TDC on the compression stoke. Or 5° ATDC as ductape91 says. You can eyeball it.
It is just a way to tell if #1 is on the compression stroke or exhaust stroke before you pull the distributor.

Again the distributor on your car just distributes the spark to the correct spark plug. It has nothing to do with timing.

rotor alingnment

Reply #9 – September 11, 2009, 06:18:10 PM

Quote from: softtouch;290846

The alignment slot in shaft that the rotor goes on is bigger on one side. The big side should line up with the alignment slot in the distributor adapter when #1 is TDC on the compression stoke. Or 5° ATDC as ductape91 says. You can eyeball it.
It is just a way to tell if #1 is on the compression stroke or exhaust stroke before you pull the distributor.

Again the distributor on your car just distributes the spark to the correct spark plug. It has nothing to do with timing.

so, let me get this straight. If I'm on number 1 compression,at 5 deg I have to disconnect the bails on the adapter, then lift and rotate it until the center of the 2 tabs ines up with the large slot on the rotor shaft so what position would the rotor be set at initially?.. thanks

to explain this better you can call me at 201 376 1946

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #10 – September 11, 2009, 06:35:18 PM

Quote from: mrx;290849

so, let me get this straight. If I'm on number 1 compression,at 5 deg I have to disconnect the bails on the adapter, then lift and rotate it until the center of the 2 tabs ines up with the large slot on the rotor shaft so what position would the rotor be set at initially?.. thanks

to explain this better you can call me at 201 376 1946

That part about separating the adapter from the base and turning it confuses me. I thought they only went together in one spot. Tab into a notch kind of thing.
If the alignment slots don't align up, pull the distributor and put it back on different gear tooth.

dist timing

Reply #11 – September 15, 2009, 09:46:24 PM

i still haven't figured this out yet, all the books show the eec3 system.
with the brown ignition module connector. but shows the dist with an oddball cap and rotor i have a regular cap and rotor set up. also the egr system is disconnected from the vacuum source. if set the dist at 10 degrees the car runs but will not idle properly i just want to make sure i have the dist set right before i do anything further. thanks for reading my ramblings ...

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #12 – September 16, 2009, 11:33:04 AM

From the 84 shop manual:
"Rotor Alignment:
1. Remove distributor cap.
2. Remove the rotor
3. To check rotor alignment:
a. Rotate engine until No. 1 piston is on compression stroke.
b. Slowly rotate the engine until Rotor alignment tool can be inserted in the alignment slots. (Eyeball it)
c. Read timing mark on damper indicated by timing pointer.
d. If timing mark is 0 degrees ±4 degrees rotor alignment is acceptable

4. To adjust rotor alignment:
a. Rotate engine until No, 1 piston is on compression stroke.
b. slowly rotate engine until timing pointer aligns with 0 degree timing mark.
c. Loosen two sleeve assemble adjustment screws and insert Rotor Alignment tool (Eyeball it).
d. Tighten two sleeve assembly adjustment screws."

There is conflicting info on whether there is a big and small slot in the distributor shaft.
The shop manual does not say. They assume you have the tool.
Just make sure you are on the compression stroke for rhe #1 piston or you could wind up 180° out.

Also the above procedure is for fine tuning it if you are less than a whole gear tooth off.

dist setting.

Reply #13 – September 19, 2009, 08:16:35 PM

Quote from: softtouch;291424

From the 84 shop manual:
"Rotor Alignment:
1. Remove distributor cap.
2. Remove the rotor
3. To check rotor alignment:
a. Rotate engine until No. 1 piston is on compression stroke.
b. Slowly rotate the engine until Rotor alignment tool can be inserted in the alignment slots. (Eyeball it)
c. Read timing mark on damper indicated by timing pointer.
d. If timing mark is 0 degrees ±4 degrees rotor alignment is acceptable

4. To adjust rotor alignment:
a. Rotate engine until No, 1 piston is on compression stroke.
b. slowly rotate engine until timing pointer aligns with 0 degree timing mark.
c. Loosen two sleeve assemble adjustment screws and insert Rotor Alignment tool (Eyeball it).
d. Tighten two sleeve assembly adjustment screws."

There is conflicting info on whether there is a big and small slot in the distributor shaft.
The shop manual does not say. They assume you have the tool.
Just make sure you are on the compression stroke for rhe #1 piston or you could wind up 180° out.

Also the above procedure is for fine tuning it if you are less than a whole gear tooth off.

so basically when i line up the notches and install the rotor it doesn't matter what position the rotor is in. also what notches are supposed to line up? is it the molded in notch on the upper cap adapter?or the notch on the distributor base below the sleeve assembly .i lined it up with notch on the distributor housing. the car is running but the timing is about 20 to 25 degrees ..thanks again.. also this set up is pretty LAME i should have never removed the distributor .... thanks..

1983 5.0 dist. timing problem

Reply #14 – September 19, 2009, 09:29:48 PM

Quote from: mrx;291820

also this set up is pretty LAME i should have never removed the distributor .... thanks..

Quote from: mrx;291820

the dist appears to be a duraspark III setup .but the cap and rotor are for a conventional dist. the car runs, and did run until the timing chain ped out

I guess I'm a little confused about how you replaced a timing chain WITHOUT removing the dizzy. The dizzy's gotta come out before the timing cover will come off.

That said, are you absolutely sure the cam was indexed with the crank? There should be timing marks on the crank gear and on the cam gear. They should point at each other. Otherwise, the mechanical logic for the valves would be wrong, and that engine will NEVER run right, no matter where you put the dizzy. Being a tooth or two off with the dizzy is the least of your timing worries.