TPS/Throttle body swap question (The Saga Continues...)

Topic: TPS/Throttle body swap question (The Saga Continues...) (Read 4676 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #15 – May 03, 2005, 11:02:18 AM

We're a few steps past that, larry. :D

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #16 – May 03, 2005, 11:12:58 AM

Well techinically I never got the exact volt reading on it... I don't have a voltmeter. I just adjusted it up (clockwise)and it seemed to help somewhat. I'll have to get my hands on one then because its still running wierd, and I know it can be running better because it never used to do this, and there was a couple of times yesterday it ran like a dream! Once it even ran better than it ever has and had a lot of pickup. But, then it would eventually start getting screwy. It has yet to do the full shake and sputter routine since yesterday though. All it did this morning on the way to work was idle wierd when I first started it up. Usually it idles up high, and then drops down to normal, but when it went to drop down it went down too far and I had to give it gas to catch it from stalling and then it evened out to about 800 rpm again. I'm wondering if the idle air bypass is bad...is there a way to check? Also the TPS on there isn't all that old. I put a new one on back in 03 sometime.

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #17 – May 03, 2005, 11:18:38 AM

Tech article from the guys at TCCoA on the correct way to adjust the TPS.
http://www.tccoa.com/articles/engine/index.html#

Otherwise I don't think anyone told you to take a look at the TV cable... you would've had to mess with it on the new throttle body install and it could be the cause of the transmission woes. Here's something on that from both coolcats.net and TCCoA...
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/shift.html
http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/index.html#

Also to smooth out the idle take the IAC and the EGR off and see what kind of carbon build up has settled there. All you need is a carb cleaner and it'll show you a world of difference. If possible pull the codes from you computer and see if the TPS is really the culprit. Here is an article giving you a step by step for the tests.
http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/RetrievingCodes/retrieving_eec_diagnostic_codes.htm
In the "Key On Engine Off" test it will also test the EGR, however many times it will not pick up a problem, and it is a common fault on the 5.0's.

Hope this all helps.

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #18 – May 03, 2005, 11:25:34 AM

OK, if you don't have a voltmeter, maybe we do need to go a couple steps back to where larrycar is. Oops.

It looks like this is the new version of my multimeter.. and it's more expensive than I remember it being, at $29.99.. but there's also this one at $15.99. (and it's buttstuffog, so you could use it to pull codes if you don't have a Check Engine light. Something I can't do with my digital multimeter)

When it comes to the wires, I tend to use safety pins so I can try to hang the tester's leads in the little loops.. frees my hands up to work on the TPS while still getting a reading. It's kinda tricky to hang 'em like that and keep the pins in the wires. Much swearing has been involved.

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #19 – May 03, 2005, 11:26:43 AM

Sweet. Thanks MDJ1281. Thats a new list of leads I can check out today to hunt this problem down. :) I'm learning a lot here everyday.

edit: Bird351 Thanks for pointing those out. I'm gonna check that out in just a bit.

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #20 – May 03, 2005, 03:19:57 PM

One more quick question...when swapping out the throttle body for a larger size, is it common practice to have to adjust the TV cable etc?

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #21 – May 03, 2005, 03:53:37 PM

Quote

One more quick question...when swapping out the throttle body for a larger size, is it common practice to have to adjust the TV cable etc?

If it was adjusted properly beforehand AND it was not thrown out of adjustment during the swap there should be no need to. A 50 MM and a 60 MM have the linkage mount in the same location as do most aftermarket Throttle bodies.
If you need to here's how...http://www.txchange.com/aodadj.htm

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #22 – May 08, 2005, 12:55:19 PM

Alright, well I finally got my hands on a volt meter...

It was indeed set pretty low at around .54 so I needed to expand the hole a bit. After about 30 minutes I got it set to .975, then I unplugged the idle air bypass, unplugged the battery for 30 min to reset the EEC, started it later and set the idle around 800 rpm, turned it off and plugged the IAC back in and it idles great...after it does the shaky hesitation problem thingy, but even that isn't as drastic as it used to be. Once it gets the hesitation out of its system and smooths out, it runs almost better than ever. So yea, its still doing it, but the throttle response and pick up has really improved.

I cleaned out the idle bypass the other day with some throttle body cleaner and it also seemed to help a bit. I'm thinking that either its bad, or possibly the EGR or MAP sensor. Any clues on where to go next? I'm tempted to just replace all three of those with some of my HO conversion funds...

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #23 – May 10, 2005, 08:10:36 AM

Man, its gettin' hot and humid here in Texas! Its time to get the AC put back in the car, but first I'd like to finish clearing up this problem because running the AC seems to make it much worse. Which brings me to my next point of interest. If running the AC makes the shakey/hesitation problem worsen, does that give a better indication of what the problem is? Also remember, it only does the shakey/hesitation thing once per start up. Once you are driving along and it gets it out of its system, it doesn't do it again until you shut if off. Usually to clear it up, you have to floor it and right around 30 mph it suddenly smooths out. Sometimes it smooths out on its own when waiting at a red light though.

Second thing, is it the same EGR and Idle air bypass on my t-bird as the ones on mustangs? I was going to look for the parts on ebay, and its always easier to find the mustang parts first, but I wanted to double check.

Thanks!

Ran Codes, here's what I got

Reply #24 – May 10, 2005, 04:50:13 PM

Ok guys, I ran codes on it today using a jumper wire. I did it about 3 times just to make sure because I kept getting a few different numbers. Basically it came down to

92 - EGO sensor problem due to fuel pressure or injectors out of balance/transaxle shift fault.

34 - Canister or EGR valve control circuit or EVP voltage high

13 - RPM idle out of range/low

So what exactly should I do from here? I'm off to do further research until someone responds.

(edit: so basically my idle problem has something to do with the EGR's EVP and or the canister silenoid? thats funny, I noticed the canister making funny ticking noises the other day

also, the 02 sensors in code 92 seem to be somehow related to the OD problem?)

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #25 – May 10, 2005, 11:28:31 PM

I'd be concerned about the code 34 more than anything. Kind of sounds like the EVP might be shot...that would explain a lot. Whenever there is a stumbling or hesitation problem, the EGR/EVP are usually the culprits. Try changing the EVP and you should see some kind of improvement. Kicking the idle back up will clear out code 13. The code 92 may indicated a bad O2 sensor but try the others first.

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #26 – May 11, 2005, 08:15:29 AM

Thanks Eric. :) I I swapped out the EVP yesterday evening and things seem to smooth out even more, but still no luck with getting rid of the hesitation problem. Another funny thing is I noticed if you drop in into park when it starts doing it, and then back into drive it seems to clear it up...

I guess the next step is to replace the EGR as well?

I did notice the transmission shifting better in OD. Wasn't as rough kicking into passing gear while over 45 and also didn't buck as bad downshifting at 30 mph, but still noticable. It would be killer to find out that what i thought was a tranny problem really was the EEC out of wack due to egr or o2s. I had 2 brand new o2's put on in spring of last year though when I had the custom dual exhaust put on, and it didn't start doing this till fall of last year. I've had a gut feeling its been the EGR sticking. Is there anyway to check before I go spend the 80 something bucks?

Thanks again, you guys are a world of help!!

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #27 – May 11, 2005, 09:12:20 AM

Yes, you can clean out the EGR just like you did with the idle bypass valve. The plunger inside should not be sticking; make sure it's freed up. Do this before shelling out ~$80 for a new EGR. Also make sure the gasket is good for it.

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #28 – May 12, 2005, 06:18:46 PM

I cleaned out the EGR a while back, at the same time I did the IAC, but maybe it could stand another cleaning? I don't think so though.

Today's the first day I ran codes on it since I changed out the EVP, and now its giving me both a 31 AND a 34. Voltage too high and too low? I haven't cleared out the EEC since before though, so maybe the 34 is the old one. Would it be safe to say the EGR is just bad? Also, would it be safe to guess its whats causing my really rough idle/hesitation at low speeds?

I'm also getting a 91 now as opposed to a 92. Can you clean o2 sensors as well?

Re: TPS/Throttle body swap question

Reply #29 – May 12, 2005, 06:23:57 PM

Also, I found another code list that stated different things depending on your car... I'm not quite sure which ones pertain to me...

34 EVP - (R) EGR did not respond properly during test - EVP
EVR - (O, R, M) EVP sensor is/was high - EVR
PFE - (O, R, M) PFE sensor is/was out of range - PFE

41 (R) System lean - Fuel control
(M) System was lean for 15 seconds or more (no HO2S switching) - Fuel control

This last one here really got me for the code 91. Which one of these 2 would apply to me?

91 (R, M) System running lean - Fuel control
Transmission SS 1 circuit/solenoid problem - Transmissions

I know i'm so close to clearing this all up! Thanks again to everybody whos helping me learn this all along the way.