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Topic: Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry! (Read 4606 times) previous topic - next topic

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

I'm looking for someone with a good understanding of electrical circuits to help me examine the Thunderbird wiper circuit so that I can figure out how to control it with the SN95 stuff I have in my car (post SN dash swap).  The SN95 stuff is very similar to the Fox Mustang stuff so I will be referencing the fox diagrams at times as well.

So, the first step is figuring out how the stock 88 Thunderbird circuits work.  Here's the diagram I started with and what I think I know so far:



I know a touch more but it's not necessary just yet.  What I'm looking for first is an understanding of the three 'solid-line' wires going to the actual wiper motor (I'll get to the dashed line after).  So, who can help??  :hick:
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #1 –
your whatever you posted,, is a red X.

here is a link to help from the diy link
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=11615

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #2 –
can you post up the SN95 wiper system?
it would be easier to cross breed the wiring.

i could overlap the two with the computer and tie in ckts ,,, im not familiar with the layout of the sn95 though.

do you still have the interval governer box?

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #3 –
That's strange, it shows fine here and is the same way I always post (photobucket).  Try this:  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/booksix/ThunderbirdWiper1.jpg

Anyway, I thought about posting up the diagrams for cross reference but I was hoping to take it step by step so I might understand what I have and then try to figure out how to get there.  But I can throw everything up...

I have the stock governer box, an SN95 box and could get a Fox 'stang box.  I think some of the mustang guys have successfully wired the SN switch to the Fox 'stang governer so that may be a good place to start.  The biggest issue with both Mustang boxes is that they have no circuits for parking the wipers but I can get to that after the wipers work...

Here's what I have:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/booksix/Untitled-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/booksix/SNWiper2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/booksix/SNWiper1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/booksix/FoxStangWiper1.jpg
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #4 –
Ill be up in St Paul MN area and several surrounding states all week, taking off now to get the bird.

I'll try to make time in the hotel and fiddle with this if my site surveys go smooth as glass.

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #5 –
Sweet!  You'll be kinda up there by my hometown (in WI).  I'm kinda jealous, should be nice up there this time of year.  Anyway, thanks for the help!  Have a good trip!
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #6 –
Quote from: booksix;272851


I know a touch more but it's not necessary just yet.  What I'm looking for first is an understanding of the three 'solid-line' wires going to the actual wiper motor (I'll get to the dashed line after).  So, who can help??  :hick:

The dashed line simply means there is a mechanical connection between the motor and the switch. Everything inside the box labeled "wiper motor/switch" is one unit. The switches would be part of the park circuit, which are activated if the wiper is not in the park position (it is this switch that makes the wipers park when you turn them off).

As for the function of those wires:

The dark blue wire is GROUNDED when the wiper switch is in the LOW or INTERMITTANT setting. This is the low speed feed.

The white wire is GROUNDED when the wiper switch is in the HI position. This is the high speed feed.

The yellow/red strip wire is the wiper motor's power feed. It will have 12 volts when the wiper switch is in any position except "OFF". It will also have power when the switch is off and the wipers are parking - once they're parked the power is cut off by the delay module.

When in INTERMITTANT mode the wiper motor is grounded through the dark blue wire just like it is in LOW, and the delay module gives a pulse of power on the yellow/red wire every time it wants to activate the wipers. Once this pulse has occured the wipers will return to the base of the windshield, but they will not park until the wiper switch is turned off.

Here's a better diagram that shows the inner workings of the wiper switch and the delay (governer) module
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #7 –
I'm just looking at the Mustang system (I looked at a 96) and you are definitely going to have problems with the park circuit. Fox Birdcats have two park circuits (hence the two switches in the diagram). One "park" circuit returns the wipers to the bottom of the windshield and is activated when the wipers are in pulse mode, the other pulls them down into the cowl when the wipers are off.

I did come up with a potential solution though: Use the delay module from a '92 Mark VII. The Mark VII uses a resistance-based switch sense like the SN95 Mustang but has provisions for the two park circuits of the T-Bird's wiper motor. I've just looked at the Mark VII diagram and it appears the resistance values in the switch are the same as the SN95 Mustang, so you should be able to use the Mustang switch, Mark delay module and T-Bird wiper motor... I say this as a theory, of course...
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #8 –
Nice, thanks for the input!  I was wondering if there may be a unit that would combine proper resistances with a park circuit but had no idea where to look.  Where did you source this info?  Do you have any diagrams?
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #9 –
I've got diagrams. As for where I got the idea on the Mark VII module it was just a hunch. I knew the Mark VII would have a similar park mechanism to our cars and figured that since they were made into '92 they may have the more modern switch and module. I then compared a '95 Mustang diagram to the '92 Mark VII diagram to the '88 T-Bird diagram, and it looks to me like something could be made to work using components from all three systems (Mustang switch, Mark VII module, T-Bird wiper motor).

For the record, I've just checked and it looks like an '02 Mustang has the same switch resistance values as the '95, so you should be able to use the switch from any SN95 Mustang

For your perusal, here are the Mustang and Mark diagrams:
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #10 –
Thanks, I'll try to track down the Mark VII unit and update the thread :D
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #11 –
Hey Thunder Chicken, do you have diagrams for old Mark VII's as well?  I know there are a few Mark VII's in the Junkyard here in San Diego but I doubt I'm lucky enough they are 92's.  Just trying to figure out what years could all work...  thanks!


edit: based on multifunction switches from rock auto it looks like they started that in '90.    ??
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #12 –
Hmm...1990 was the first year for the airbag in the Mark VII, which required a square steering column cover, which probably also required the new wiper switch (same for Mustang, Taurus, etc.). That may be why 1990-92 switches are the same.

Just throwing that in there for ya. ;)

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #13 –
I'd say Eric's right about the air bag making the difference. I've just checked, and the '89 Mark VII wiper switch is the same wiring as the 88 T-Bird. '90 Mark VII is the same as the '92, so you should be good with 90-92.
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

Circuitry masters: Pls help me examine the wiper circuitry!

Reply #14 –
Sweet, thanks guys, you're amazing!  And once I get this done it's interfacing the 05 explorer steering wheel controls with the cruise control ;)
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats