GM and Ford stock at the same value

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GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #15 – March 06, 2009, 03:03:46 PM

How many other companies will undergo the same process after receiving this "bailout?"

Sadly many if not all

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #16 – March 06, 2009, 03:37:24 PM

Demon, I think you hit the nail on the head. I feel sorry for the Big 3 as I have always owned an American car...but if I buy one after the "bailout" is that not supporting communism since the gvt. pretty much paid them to stay afloat after they managed the business like . You see when they jumped in with both feet into money lending for the housing market, and now they are paying the price for a bad business move. Unfortunately all the UAW retirees will lose their retirement from GM if we let them go under. That would destroy an already dieing Detroit.

If you pull one string on the sack of poo the whole thing just starts ripping open.

The US Automakers need to downsize, re-identify with the American public, and bring back a slew of real American Cars...rear wheel drive economy cars with a slew of interior options, paint options, trim options and drive train options. Why not a 4 cylinder with or without turbo, a small 6 cylinder with or without turbo, or a Good Old American V-8 that is no less than 5 L.

US Automakers+this plan=:D :D

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #17 – March 06, 2009, 04:18:53 PM

As much as I hate to say it but if GM goes they're all f*cked.....

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #18 – March 08, 2009, 09:30:48 PM

In a short amount of time, we went from big SUV's to "green" cars. R&D had to be on top of its game for that sudden of a change.
Unfortunately they weren't, IMO.

GM felt that filing bankruptcy was bad PR. Now if they go under after taking bailout money, it'll be worse PR. It's like unscrambling scrambled eggs, as I had read earlier today. Well, I see that's already been noted. Maybe someone can tell me if they could have downsized through lay-offs and other methods sooner if not for the UAW? Perhaps they could've survived that way.

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #19 – March 09, 2009, 09:22:33 AM

Chrysler and Ford have the ability to make it GM unfortunately has way to many company branches. Opel just declared their independance from GM's management which in my mind is huge, Saturn is dead, Pontiac's head is on the block. Hummer and Saab are for sale and who really wants to buy those turds? The american car market hashiznit a rocky patch and GM needs help because they've made stupid decisions for so long (They all have) I guess they forgot the old K.I.S.S. mantra, every car became overcomplicated or unreliable or undesirable. Build a simple car that people want not cars loaded with garbage we don't need or think is ugly as sin.

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #20 – March 09, 2009, 03:27:56 PM

Apparently GM stock is inking to depression era like amounts....

http://jalopnik.com/5165566/127-per-share-the-general-motors-of-1933

I would surmise that this is in part to the German government telling Opel to basically sink or swim on their own....

http://jalopnik.com/5165429/report-germany-denies-gms-opel-416-billion-over-glossy-advertisp00get+like-bailout-plan

Quote

Media reports claim the German government angrily denied Opel's $4.16 billion bailout proposal over receiving a "glossy 217-page brochure which read like an advertisp00get, rather than presenting any viable business

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/mar/06/automotive-industry-germany

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #21 – March 09, 2009, 11:37:25 PM

Quote from: HAVI;260203

In a short amount of time, we went from big SUV's to "green" cars. R&D had to be on top of its game for that sudden of a change.
Unfortunately they weren't, IMO.

While I agree that the sudden shift in consumers' taste from the biggest thing they could fit in the driveway to the most fuel efficient car they could find had a big part in GM's downfall, it certainly wasn't the only contributor. GM, Ford and Chrysler were all bleeding profusely long before the economy took a dump. It's only that Ford was doing so badly a few years ago that they've managed to stay away from government handouts now. They were so broke a few years ago that they mortgaged the farm, and were only lucky that they did so while banks were still lending money. In other words, Ford got their bailout from the banks before everyone else started looking for bailouts from the government.

The only thing that the current economy and change in consumer taste has to do with what's happening now to the Big Three is that it was the sugar on the cake. Just when Ford and GM were starting to turn things around nobody was buying anything anymore. A perfect storm of an unprecedented shift in customer desires and a sudden and lengthly (albeit highly over hyped by the media) recession, combined with a very dismal recent past for all the big 3 is what got them where they are now. Ford looks better than GM right now because Ford had a head start when it got the loans, but only a few years ago the experts were predicting Ford's death.

One thing that makes me see red is when people blame the woes of the big 3 on their "forcing big, ugly vehicles on poor, unsuspecting consumers". People who hold that opinion know ZERO about the car business. NOBODY (except CAFE, I'll get on to that in a bit) forced Detroit to build trucks and SUV's. Trucks and SUV's became popular because people wanted them, and the more people wanted them the more popular they became. Manufacturers from all nations (including puppiesan, Korea, England, Sweden and Germany) couldn't build them fast enough. Porsche did not make the Cayenne because they wanted to force people to buy SUV's, they made it because people were buying SUV's. Toyota and Nissan joined the full size truck market because people were buying full sized trucks. Toyota even tried it in steps, and their attempts (T100, first Tundra, current Tundra) were not taken seriously until they built something every bit as big, ugly, and inefficient as the Big Three. Pity poor Kia, who only last year, in the midst of the firestorm against SUV's, released a new full sized SUV every bit as big as an Explorer, with V8 power to boot. Idiots would say that Kia was stupid to build that vehicle, but people who know realize that the vehicle was "green lighted" probably 5 years ago, when the SUV craze was in full swing.

CAFE: I am fully and strongly of the opinion that CAFE is responsible for the SUV craze. CAFE mandated small, shiznitty, but fuel efficient cars. Gas was cheap, so people didn't want small, shiznitty, but fuel efficient cars. They wanted big, powerful, substantial vehicles. They started buying trucks and SUV's because it was the only way to get such a vehicle, and CAFE only applied to cars. When people started buying trucks to use as personal transportation car companies obliged them by making the trucks more like cars inside. People didn't want Cavaliers, they wanted Tahoes. Since Tahoes were selling like hotcakes and were bringing in more profit per vehicle GM (and all other manufacturers except perhaps Ferrarri) focused on trucks SUV's. It all boils down to CAFE forcing manufacturers into making vehicles too small, too tinny. And CAFE was brought about as a panic answer to a fuel crisis.

35MPG CAFE standards, also brought about by a fuel price panic, might have had a similar effect, except this time they government was smart enough to not exempt trucks. Technology, thankfully, will save us from having Geo Metros forced down our throats. GM's 3.6 DI V6 and Ford's Ecoboost 4 and V6 are all fine proofs that higher fuel economy does not mean we'll see 88 horsepower Mustangs again any time soon

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #22 – March 09, 2009, 11:42:13 PM

I am starting to like what i see from ford. I wonder if they are actually going to refuse stimulus money per npr news today. Maybe they might start thinking like a small buisness and start using lanugage like "grow" or "lets become".

I am hopeful.

For gm,, hopeful as well but I see from as many news sources i can absorb that we dont really have the full story on thier long term intent if the stimulus is accepted / used. I bet we end up with a big three again but one will be from across the pond.

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #23 – March 10, 2009, 02:15:30 AM

Quote

Ford got their bailout from the banks before everyone else started looking for bailouts from the government.

Ford has to pay their own loans.....NOT me....

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #24 – March 10, 2009, 08:48:49 AM

Quote from: V8Demon;260518

Ford has to pay their own loans.....NOT me....

Only because Ford was in such poor shape a few years ago. Had Ford not got those loans when the getting was good they'd have had their hand out right alongside GM and Chrysler. It was not due to clever thinking by Ford, it was because they were near bankruptcy

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #25 – March 10, 2009, 10:37:12 AM

GM is the one that looks to be the worst off, I think Ford and Chrysler (With Fiat's help) could make it now.

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #26 – March 10, 2009, 11:18:51 AM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken;260546

Only because Ford was in such poor shape a few years ago. Had Ford not got those loans when the getting was good they'd have had their hand out right alongside GM and Chrysler. It was not due to clever thinking by Ford, it was because they were near bankruptcy

I could care less how either one got into the mess, but when it ultimately has an effect on my wallet -- and that of my children -- and I receive absolutely nothing in return, that's when I have issue.

I understand that a company has to pass off operating costs, but at the same time I shouldn't have to pay when they go belly up due to an inability to adapt. Such has been U.S. policy for over a century. Invade and rebuild. Now the concept strikes all too close to home.

As far as Ford -- clever thinking? No, of course not. Clever thinking would have kept all 3 in the black. Looking at how GM has borrowed against workers retirement funds though, perhaps they were in just as bad a shape at the same time....Wouldn't be the first time books were cooked.

GM and Ford stock at the same value

Reply #27 – March 10, 2009, 01:32:41 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;260567

Looking at how GM has borrowed against workers retirement funds though, perhaps they were in just as bad a shape at the same time....Wouldn't be the first time books were cooked.

And won't be the last, lol.