How am i looking so far?

Topic: How am i looking so far? (Read 3737 times) previous topic - next topic

How am i looking so far?

Reply #15 – October 13, 2008, 11:38:01 AM

Whoah.. WHOAH!...
Don't have a heart attack!. :p

I have perfectionist tendencies, And worry about things too much.
So im more likely to mess something up by overcaring, than neglecting (lol).

I used WD-40, because i was told it would be fine.
I was still unsure, So i stopped soon after i started using it, and looked online for mixed responses. I then came to you guys.
I have carb cleaner, and i thought it would be too strong so i didnt bother with it.

I also get creative/obscure? ideas, and most of the time i shouldnt bother asking but i always do, heh.

I never had any intent on reusing the headgaskets.
Just thought there might be something useful in how the layout of these (seemingly original) gaskets formed to the block, and in the cars over 100k (HARD) miles never had the infamous blown headgasket problem.

Yes i got a new full engine gasket set and bolts + all the needed tools.

And yes this is my first time working on an engine, but i feel i'm very capable of doing so.

I just need guidance sometimes... I don't really have anyone else to look to for help in this area.
Reading up on everything is so impersonal, I'm a hands on kinda guy.
(This doesn't mean i don't read up on everything, I just prefer to talk it over with people whenever i can for better/experienced advice)

But yea... All is well right now with my TBird. :burnout:

How am i looking so far?

Reply #16 – October 13, 2008, 12:01:44 PM

Ah i see.
Had to say something man,hate to see ya destroy your engine.
Not sure this is really a job for a first time engine worker,it's one of the more difficult ones, next to an engine rebuild.
You need to read up on 3.8L head gaskets(or head gaskets in general)and the procedures involved in doing them to avert disaster.
This is a very tedius job,the head surface and block surface must be completely cleaned of old gasket material and made to have a very smooth surface or they will not seal.
You must NOT se the aluminum heads with a ser but instead use a 6-8" sanding block with emery cloth(Can't remember the grit exactly but its in the 800+ range) and go over them in a smooth length wise motion until all material is gone,this can take a while.
The block(being cast iron)can be sed but should be gone over in the same fashion with sanding block and emery cloth at the end.
The surfaces must be completely flat so you cannot sand without a block here or you will warp them for sure.
The intake surfaces should also be done in the same manner.
The head bolts do not go into water jackets(at least they didn't on my 3.8Lsc) so you do not need sealant on them.
You must however lightly oil(engine oil)the undersides of the bolt heads before installing to prevent improper torque and galling of the bolt heads.
The bolts must be torqued evenly and in this manner:
ANSWER:
1. 37 ft lbs.
2. 45 ft lbs.
3. 52 ft lbs.
4. 59 ft lbs.
5. Back all bolts off 2 to 3 turns and torque the long bolts 11 to 18 ft lbs and the short bolts 7-15ft lbs.
6. Then tighten long bolts 85 to 105 degrees and the short bolts 65 to 85 degrees.
Not my specs,i got them off the net and they appear to be accurate.
I think that about covers it so good luck and enjoy

How am i looking so far?

Reply #17 – October 14, 2008, 10:18:00 PM

Quote from: dominator;239274

Not sure this is really a job for a first time engine worker

ya gotta start somewhere. How did you start Chris? If it was anything like the rest of us, it was by trial and error.

I give him Kudos for jumping in like this. i was in 9th grade when i rebuilt the motor in the bird. still runs to this day.

go get em tiger.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #18 – January 30, 2009, 09:40:56 PM

Alright guys,
Due to uncontrollable cirspoogestances i would rather not go into.

I continue where i left off on the Head Gasket work~Hold the flames please. :flame:

I will hopefully be getting the drivers side done within the next few days, And coming to you guys for tips and such when I'm unsure of things as usual. :pbb:

So~
I peeled off the seemingly original head gasket, To have the rear just behind the cylinder tear apart very easily.
You can also see it has coolant damage and deformation in this pic:
(Meh forgot to take a pic, You can kind of see it in the pic on the first page)
I do believe i was on the way to a blown head gasket...

Hopefully this is the cause of my compression troubles.

Anyway,
Then went to work, for 5 hours, sing away an extremely well bonded and baked on gasket remains:

(NOTE: You can see rust on the black where the coolant had been escaping?/setting on the gasket near the rear)
And thus finishes the first stage of cleaning:

Now i need to due the same to the head, Then get to work thoroughly cleaning the head and changing the valve stem seals and such.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #19 – January 30, 2009, 09:56:47 PM

Also,
I was planning on wet blocking the surfaces as a second stage.
What grits should i go with for best results?

Or should i go about this another way? I do not currently have compressed air available so i assume that would rule out most other options.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #20 – January 31, 2009, 09:56:47 PM

Should i just go over the surface with a 1200 grit sanding block as second stage?
Or, Should i go for a drill and a wire brush attachment? (sounds risky :dunno:)

How am i looking so far?

Reply #21 – January 31, 2009, 10:14:34 PM

I believe you have to use a block and follow through the entire surface to keep it flat..
But I don't know exactly. never done it on a motor. I just do it on machined tool surfaces.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #22 – January 31, 2009, 10:55:40 PM

your wasting your time,, you dont want a mirrior finish anyway. Just wire wheel the block and run along it with whatever you have to finish.

the reason your wasting your time is you can not machine the whole surface at once as it would be done with a surface plainer.

On the heads however, if you have a big enough belt sander, you can hold the head and allow the belt to sand the whole bottom at once. thats what i did and you know what happened?

the left and right sides of the head were getting sanded while the middle was barely getting touched. ok,, i continued only until i saw the middle was getting cut on then stopped. What this did was remove a sligth warp that naturally happens on the AL heads.

If you can afford it, take the heads somewhere so they can be milled. You can probably do this as a walk in to most any shop if they have a UFO cutter or plainer.

The block is prob fine and has no warpage.

as for the head bolts,,, just snug them in sequence per your haynes then snug a little more on each in sequence,, then in the proper order torque to ~50ft/lbs on the first serious torque,, then ~70ft/lbs on your final.
Forget about that degree wheel stuff, its for the birds. Keep it simple and just tighten them up.

Best advice next woud be (((DONT FORGET TO ADD SILICONE))) to the head bolts that pass into the water jacket. If you dont, you will see water coming out along the short bolts. I cant remember if the long bolts need sealed or not.

Those pistons dont look stock now the more I think about it. I thought your should be dished only , not dished and fly cut.

It is very common that you compression test and snug up the four bolts surrounding any low / odd compression cylinder. Just dial in another 5ftlbs or so but be careful not to go overboard. Dont assume just because the compression is low, it must be the headgasket. It could be valves not seating perfect ect.

Take that head apart and lap grind the valves and shim the spings. You will be best served to go buy a valve spring compressor for this but it can be done by other make shift tools.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #23 – February 01, 2009, 01:43:48 AM

looking good. Ive done several HGs now. Don't let anyone scare you. It really isin't all that difficult.

Piece of advice though,
Oil the cyl walls to keep them rust free.
Stuff rags down in the cyls when your sing.
Then use a compressor to blast the bolt holes clean.
If you have a tap, run it through the head bolt holes.
When you finish, pull the rags out to dump the garbage.
Blast around the rings to get any residual garbage out.

If you want, get a set of ARP studs for a chevy 2.8L and I would be surprised if you blow your HGs. I have them on my SC and haven't had a problem since.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #24 – February 01, 2009, 02:01:16 AM

i see you slipped in a little water jacket advice:hick:

ive never collected anyones thoughts on that, just mentioned it a few times here and there as to why there are none up front.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #25 – February 01, 2009, 11:02:01 AM

Thanks Guys!

Should i get any specific kind of wire wheel/brush? (brass, steel, etc)

And you think my pistons may not be factory? Interesting...

The biggest belt sander we have is something like 1foot by6inches and is ancient, Any ideas how much it might cost at a machine shop?

Any specific type/brand silicon (locktite?) to use on the threads?
And should i use any kind of sealant along with the new head gasket?

And yep yep~Been using shop towels in the cylinders, and whiping oil all over the internals cuz im super paranoid of rust. lol.
No compressor available ATM, But i have a couple 3hp shop vacs i've been using.

I've already purchases the new bolts, Clevite + 2 Felpro? shorties from jcassity (thanks!).

**Also,
Here is where i think the head gasket blew~even though it doesnt really look like it (circled red):

That was taken less than 5 mins after i took the head off~Too much deterioration and rusting (underneath) for that length of time.
This is also the area where that mysterious smoke was coming from.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #26 – February 02, 2009, 02:55:53 AM

Head is cleaning up very nicely, I'm kind of surprised~

Before:

After:

How am i looking so far?

Reply #27 – February 02, 2009, 09:50:33 AM

I wouldn't belt sand an aluminum head. Take it to a shop and have it milled. It shouldn't cost too much. Cheaper if you disassemble them yourself.

Also, Ive always had good luck cleaning the engine surface with cheap flat blade safety razors.
What does the combustion chamber look like on the 3.8L NA Heads?
What are you using to clean the heads? They look really good.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #28 – February 02, 2009, 01:48:18 PM

I'd just check for warpage. If its not warped, and the valves appear to be closed all the way, I would just clean it and leave it as is.

How am i looking so far?

Reply #29 – February 02, 2009, 04:37:23 PM

Quote from: Haystack;254941

I'd just check for warpage. If its not warped, and the valves appear to be closed all the way, I would just clean it and leave it as is.

I have heard it both ways. Some people say that an aluminum head gets an impression from the old HGs and that they should always be resurfaced. I did this for my SC (because it was a huuuuuge biish and I would never want to do it again).

I have also just pulled the head, cleaned and slapped it back on with fresh gaskets. Both these cars are still on the road. The ladder is a boosted engine gets routinely flogged. So I guess its up to you. I would probably just clean them and install them unless there is obvious damage/warpage like haystack said. I still stand behind my "no belt sanders" recommendation.