Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Topic: Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings? (Read 9664 times) previous topic - next topic

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #15 – June 04, 2008, 09:17:04 PM

I also know that if they are sticking the rotors need to be replaced as they are probably warped. Could this be the calipers or the hoses? It seems odd that both hoses would develope the problem at the same time. This has to be the source of the vibration as a warped rotor+sticking caliper *should*=vibration at highway speeds when the brakes are not on. I can't really feel a vibration when braking but the car does pull to the left (driver's side) a bit when braking. The vibration also seems to pretty much go away when the brakes are applied leading me again to believe that the calipers are sticking and the source of the heat.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #16 – June 04, 2008, 10:57:35 PM

did you change the rack and inner tie rods?

i dont see calipers sticking giving you a high speed vibrations. that would just make the car pull to one side. if you get a vibration when you hit the brakes, that could be from warped rotors.

are your brakes stock equipment for your car?

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #17 – June 04, 2008, 11:16:57 PM

Quote from: 32VFoxBird;222091

did you change the rack and inner tie rods?

i dont see calipers sticking giving you a high speed vibrations. that would just make the car pull to one side. if you get a vibration when you hit the brakes, that could be from warped rotors.

are your brakes stock equipment for your car?

Yep both have been changed, car aligned, and wheels balanced.

It's not my car it's my buddies 89 Mustang GT with 128,000 miles. Yes it has stock brakes.

So it has:
New rack and inner and outer tie rods
New struts
Balljoints are good (not new but wear indicators are still above the base of the joint)
Wheel bearings are good
U joints are new (it's not a driveline vibration anyways).

Sticking brakes have to be the cause. It would also explain the front wheels being so hot after a drive (much hotter than they should be).

Also the vibration goes away when the brakes are applied.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #18 – June 05, 2008, 06:51:58 PM

So we ran a test today. I followed him in my 88 T-bird since it's similar to his Mustang (I followed because my car is faster :burnout: ) and we went around the same loop. It was a combo of highway (75 mph speed) and city traffic. After the loop we compaired the temp of my front wheels to his. Mine were hot (it was 88* today and we were in stop and go traffic for a bit) but you could touch them for about 1-2 seconds before your hand got too hot and you had to pull away. The fronts on his Mustang were so hot that you touched them and pulled away instantly because it hurt like hell. He still has the vibration in the steering wheel and column above 70 (almost like when you press on the brake and you have warped roters, the steering wheel shakes a bit side to side and the column vibrates). All the front end stuff is fine and the car was never wreaked so it has to be the brakes sticking. Plus his fluid is sooo dark brown it's almost black and has a bit of a burnt smell. The Mustang also has a bit of brake fade after driving for a while as the brakes get hot.

So for all you smart people what would cause both front brakes to stick at the same time? I really don't want to go through the trouble of replacing the front calipers, rotors, and hoses and the problem comes back. Could it really just be that something in both failed at the same time?

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #19 – June 05, 2008, 09:23:11 PM

could be a bad master cylinder. I didn't think I had any problems, but I switched it out anyways, and what a difference! It could be a bad/bent rim or also a bad alignment or tire balance, drive shaft dog bones, u-joints...

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #20 – June 08, 2008, 03:01:04 PM

Thunderjet, all of these posts looking for answers, and you keep answering your own questions. This Mustang you are working on is old, and has a pile of miles on it. Yes, driving down the road makes your wheels and tires warm due to the friction involved in just driving down the road. All cars do that. Sticking calipers cause warped rotors, right? Why would you not have a vibration at 70MPH even if you are not applying the brakes. The rotors don't become strait without the brakes applied, and then suddenly warped when you apply the brakes. Throw some pads, rotors, and calipers on the car and be done with it. If you are worried about the hoses, spend the $30 to replace them too. You should be able to give the tires a good spin, and they should turn 2 to 3 revolutions, if they stop before that, its leading right back to the calipers that you already know are bad.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #21 – June 09, 2008, 02:06:45 AM

Quote from: slowfoxbird;222609

You should be able to give the tires a good spin, and they should turn 2 to 3 revolutions, if they stop before that, its leading right back to the calipers that you already know are bad.

good bearings and primed up calipers = about one turn only. three says the spindle nut is too loose.

this just might be opinion but if the wheel spins past a turn, the nut needs tightened.

thunderjet-
your fluid needs changed as well.
did you even check the calipers with the c-clamp to see if they compress easy?

to verify its brake related,,, go to the rear of the car and adjust the back brakes real real real good.

now go up front and undo the calipers and secure them pads and all up and out of the way with wire.
take the car for a drive with no front brakes and see if that changes things.

this is a risk ofcourse, just make sure you both feel comfortable doing it. The car will stop with rear only just make sure you pump the pedel up and add fluid to the master prior to take off. The pistons on both calpers are going to push out and your fluid will appear low.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #22 – June 09, 2008, 02:12:05 AM

btw..
speaking of brown and burnt fluid,,,,,,,,,,,,

you just found your problem. Now everything that contains that fluid needs flushed or at worse / best case replaced. depends on how you look at it but your brake fluid is done and that would contribute to the primary source of both calipers not letting off completly. The interior of your lines may appreciate come cleaning as well.

Keep in mind, what ever is going on up front is and will be happening to the rear now,,,,,,,,so........... perhaps my previous suggestion isnt a good one afterall. That would be a helava time to blow a rear wheel cylinder.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #23 – June 09, 2008, 08:47:56 PM

Well, sorry if the following post seems harsh, but I cannot belive what I just read!! Take the front calipers off?? That is such a good idea on a disc/drum system where the front calipers do 75-80% of the stopping. Ok, I may not have a big list of part number crossovers for old cars. I may not have written a big list of DIY walkthroughs for the driveway mechanic. But I do have these,

, which prove I know what the hell I am doing. There is nothing wrong with 2-3 turns on a hub rotor brake system. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. I was giving my professional opinion as a Ford certified Master Technician. If the front calipers are taken off, there is a 90% chance that the pistons will extend past the piston seal, and then who cares whether or not the M/C is topped off or not, becuase it will be all over the road. Thunderjet, if your value your life, please do not use the above ideas. The only sane idea there is to replace the fluid because automotive industry standard is that brake fluid only has a 24 month, 24,000 mile service life anyway. Ok, rant is over, go about your lives, and think with a little common sense before you go messing with brakes if you are unfamiliar with them. Remember, on the road, your life is not the only one at risk when you do something unsafe.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #24 – June 10, 2008, 03:06:35 PM

Later today or tomorrow we're just replacing the roters (which are warped), calipers, and front brake hoses as well as flushing the brake system. I'm not going to drive his Mustang around with the front brakes disabled as that seems like a good way to kill myself in city traffic:hick:

If that doesn't work fugg it I'll just tell him to take it to a mechanic......

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #25 – June 10, 2008, 03:10:18 PM

You should be able to get it handled like that with no problems. Adjust the rear drums, and you will make a big difference in the stopping power of the car.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #26 – June 10, 2008, 03:33:13 PM

Almost forgot that too

The rear shoes are ok as they have about 80% of the lining left.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #27 – June 11, 2008, 07:15:11 PM

Replaced everything and it drives great:D Yippie I don't have to work on my buddies Mustang anymore

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #28 – June 12, 2008, 12:57:08 AM

no one was putting you down slowfoxbird.

how are ya gonna lose the piston on the caliper with the pads still in place? Your a master at this stuff not me, so tell me why ford would not build in a tolerance to the lenght of the piston to compensate for the lack of actual pad? What you have just said is that with the pads still in place,, and if you actuate both calipers,, the pistons will pop out. That is not correct sir and all it takes is to rebuild on of the calipers to find out its actual capacity. Nice slam but no dice bro.

did you not read that i said its a risk?

did'nt i say its just my opinion on the amount of turns the wheel would have ? Your opinion is with respect to no caliper on the car,, but you failed to mention that and its important to mention.

Ill bet you would disagree that duct taping a fuel pres tester to the windshield while driving is a bad idea as well to monitor fuel presure while under a real load.

I suppose you gotta consider your risks before taking advice. Asi i said, its a risk and people like thunderjet should already know most of the brake power comes from the front,,, and yes,, yet again,, I did cover that by asking he check the rear shoes are adjusted. Thunderjet seems like he knows a lot of stuff and with some people on here, you do assume a lot especially when they hand out lots of advice of thier own.

You took something personal and i cant say im sorry for anything i said cause i think i handled it as polite as possible.

And guess what,, i negated my one advice after contemplating the condition of the fluid and decided the rear cylinders may be in a situation where they could also be defective if put under that much load.

no hard feelings i hope.

Steering wheel shimmy/shake bad wheel bearings?

Reply #29 – June 12, 2008, 10:03:05 PM

thunderjet, glad to hear that everything worked out for you and that the car is in top condition again! :)

jcassity: I did take it personal, and I did take it as a put down, because when you reply to people on here, you rarely agree with anyone, and expect them to take your word as law.

Now, about the piston, when you work in the real world of automotive repair, you see all kinds of crazy stuff that people do to their cars. Most Ford vehicles have a minimum rotor thickness of 24.75mm. Pads are 10mm per side, for a combined total of 20mm. When you see a car come in that has a complaint of low brake pedal, and you diag the root cause as metal to metal of the pads and rotors, and fluid coming out from behind the piston. It does not happen to every single car that goes metal to metal, but it does happen quite often. So, even with brand new pads, you would still be missing almost 5mm from the minimum thickness of the disc, leading to even more chance of the caliper g fluid from behind the piston.

Maybe I forgot to mention that with everything assembled, (rotors, pads, calipers, and wheels bolted on) that you should get 2-3 turns, and that 1 would be OK if you are only turning the rotor by itself. How would caliper mounted or unmounted make a difference in the number of rotations, unless you have a sticking caliper? But you forgot to mention that if your idea were to work, you would need to find a way to secure the pads into the calipers themselves just to be on the safe side, seeing as how the caliper bolts go through the pads on an '89 Mustang. Like you said, all it would take is a rebuild of the calipers to understand how they work. That would let you know that the square cut piston seals flex outward toward the rotor when brakes are applied. When the brake pedal is released, they go back to being square shaped, which will leave a small gap between the pads, which, worst case scenario, would allow the outboard pad to vibrate out, then you would really have a fluid leakage problem. No dice? When it comes to safety, staying alive is of the utmost importance, and I am not willing to roll those dice, "bro"

There is nothing wrong with putting a fuel gage on the windshield, its about the only way to see what the fuel pump is doing when put into real working situations.