Ford Officially Commits to RWD

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Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #15 – March 25, 2008, 07:22:01 AM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken;210611

Mercury's already dead in Canada. All of the L-M dealerships were converted to Ford-Lincoln dealerships and the brand went away. The only Mercury we can buy here is, tragically and almost comically, the Grandma Marquis.

I don't care if Ford is following GM, since when you think about it, GM is following Chrysler. The important thing is that RWD cars are coming, so in 10-15 years I'll be able to buy a decent beater and won't necessarily have to go with an old Charger or 300 :hick:

Great news, Eric!!!! Drinks for everybody.... except for Carmen, for saying GM, and Ford, followed Chrysler! Holden has always been GM, (and Ford is Ford) so they're using their own cars and parts. Mercedes told Chrysler to "here, use these. We were throwing them out anyway, and they're still ten times better than anything you're puppiesing off now." So very not the same. The only similarity is that they're all using RWD chassis from other continents.

Here's a question. Why can't Ford build a Cruise Control switch that isn't Kamikaze? Three times now they've recalled the same switch and had them replaced. This is what's killing the company, not just BFJr.'s last days of destruction. Anyway, after the second recall, it's time to farm this one out.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #16 – March 25, 2008, 09:02:53 AM

Quote from: oldraven;210753

The only similarity is that they're all using RWD chassis from other continents.

So in other words, Ford and GM are following Chrysler :hick:

My point, however, was that it was Chrysler that first took the plunge and started offering modern large RWD sedans to mainstream Americans. A fact that is all the more remarkable because it was Chrysler that completely abandoned RWD first, in the first place

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #17 – March 25, 2008, 11:28:10 AM

Last I checked Ford was still making the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car when the 300/Magnum came out. Wasn't the "retro" TBird and the Lincoln LS still in production as well? Oh and the Mustang.

GM was the only RWD abandoner. With the exception of the GTO and Corvette GM had no RWD cars since the Camaro's demise in 2002 until the Solstice/Sky came out. In fact, those don't count either because they are still expensive, low production sports cars. GM's first RWD blue-collar accessible 4-door since the demise of the B-Body (Caprice/Impala in 96) is the G8, which just came out this year.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #18 – March 25, 2008, 12:03:34 PM

The Panther and Mustang platforms don't qualify as "world car" chassis.

They had to totally dumbdown the DEW platform for the Mustang, and it's pretty much worthless for anything else. The P71 chassis belongs in the museum with all the other fossils.

This is a comittment to RWD world car platform that is actually useful.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #19 – March 25, 2008, 12:26:24 PM

Quote from: P71;210770

GM was the only RWD abandoner.

No, they weren't. Chrysler had nothing, save for the Viper, that was RWD, and the Prowler fits in that same category as the Solstice/Sky as an expensive 'sport' roadster in extremely limited volume. They sold a rehashed E series as a 300, but the day before they had nothing but Neons and Intrepids.

Ford really was the only one making affordable RWD cars, even if they were for the most part questionable (30 year old chassis and big ugly retro roadster with a tiny V8). The Mustang was the only thing to be proud of, and that's not easy to say about a 25 year old Chassis.

Did the 300 come out before the GTO? From what I can find, Pontiac showed us the GTO in 2003, which is when the 300 M became the C. I know for a fact that there was an '04 GTO, so if at all, I'd say they were maybe six months apart, which means GM was working on a RWD program for NA before they felt they had to 'follow' anyone.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #20 – March 25, 2008, 12:59:17 PM

You know, I was always partial to the Crown Vic of any year, especially the current years, I don't know why, but I like it.

My soft spot will always be the Cougar, with the TBird a close second...

All these cars are RWD, that must be it. lol, I hope Ford pulls the rabbit out of there hat and makes this Interceptor a reality... even though, I'll be honest, I don't really care for the look... but I felt that way about the 300 and Charger (although I loved the front end on that charger!)

Frankly, as long as all the big 3 survive and thrive, I'll be happier than a pig in mud. But I won't lie, as everybody goes forward, I find myself wanting to go back...

all the way back to Mercury.

There's a Canadian's take on how saddened I am Mercury is dead in Canada, and I'll try to be optimistic that Mercury won't be the next Olds, but if it is... well, let's just say, I am sure there will be a renewed appreciation for our real cars. :D

But! The RWD lives on with apparent new energy... Go Ford Go!

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #21 – March 25, 2008, 01:02:56 PM

Quote from: P71;210770

Last I checked Ford was still making the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car when the 300/Magnum came out. Wasn't the "retro" TBird and the Lincoln LS still in production as well? Oh and the Mustang.

GM was the only RWD abandoner. With the exception of the GTO and Corvette GM had no RWD cars since the Camaro's demise in 2002 until the Solstice/Sky came out. In fact, those don't count either because they are still expensive, low production sports cars. GM's first RWD blue-collar accessible 4-door since the demise of the B-Body (Caprice/Impala in 96) is the G8, which just came out this year.

Just because Ford hadn't killed that platform (like the LS and Tbird)does not make them the pioneer in the return to mainstream RWD. Making taxis, police cars and pa-mobiles RWD is not mainstream. It was for fleet sale and mandated by the those fleets (police). I wouldn't own one and neither would y...oh, wait....

And anyway these are part of the platform they are abandoning. Please don't give Ford any credit. They are the follower, not the pioneer. Even after Chrysler established there was a viable market and GM got on board, it still took for 18month to 2 years to get on board.

Ford was right on mainstream RWD muscle cars but way behind on RWD sport sedans.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #22 – March 25, 2008, 01:40:52 PM

Quote from: xjeffs;210790

Please don't give Ford any credit. They are the follower, not the pioneer.

:iagree:

Not that I would argue with your point today, it is unfortunate, because they, quite historically, used to be THE pioneer.
I only hope FoMoCo's moment in time has not lapsed, and won't lapse for generations to come.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #23 – March 25, 2008, 02:37:55 PM

Quote from: cougarXLS;210801

Not that I would argue with your point today, it is unfortunate, because they, quite historically, used to be THE pioneer.
I only hope FoMoCo's moment in time has not lapsed, and won't lapse for generations to come.

That 'Monument' of Ford's hasn't been true for the company for a very long time. They Pioneered the affordable car, and the mass production of it. Hyundai is truer to the first part, and mass production has been the way of Autoland for most of the last century. It's not the fight it used to be, since Ford has actually had competition for a long time now. All the coach-buider Automakers back then were like button makers, when out of nowhere comes Ford with their Zippers and Velcro.

:toilet:

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #24 – March 25, 2008, 02:44:38 PM

Quote from: P71;210770

Last I checked Ford was still making the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car when the 300/Magnum came out. Wasn't the "retro" TBird and the Lincoln LS still in production as well? Oh and the Mustang.

GM was the only RWD abandoner. With the exception of the GTO and Corvette GM had no RWD cars since the Camaro's demise in 2002 until the Solstice/Sky came out. In fact, those don't count either because they are still expensive, low production sports cars. GM's first RWD blue-collar accessible 4-door since the demise of the B-Body (Caprice/Impala in 96) is the G8, which just came out this year.

I said "mainstream". The Panther is only mainstream if you happen to be a cop, cabbie, or own a funeral home (or are within hours of needing one). The Mustang, no matter how well it sells, is not a mainstream car. It is too impractical for everyday family transportation, which is why in its best year it might sell 10% as many as Camcords sell. Likewise the retro Bird, but with an even smaller market. The Lincoln LS was too upmarket to be mainstream (but too downmarket to be successful).

Chrysler was the first abandoner of RWD. From the early 80's on the meat and potatoes of Chrysler's products were FWD, based on either the Omni or K-Car chassis. Only the lowly Diplomat/Fury/Imperial soldiered on with its ancient full frame and leaf spring rear end until 1990 or so. Other than that and the Viper there were NO RWD Chrysler cars. Even the minivans were FWD.

Chrysler came to a sudden stop. GM and Ford kinda wound down slowly through the 80's and 90's. The X-cars started the switch for GM in '78. Then the Tempaz replaced the Fairmont about the same time the RWD Sunbird/Monza stepped aside for the J-cars. The Taurus came out in '86 (killing off the small LTD/Marquis), the W-bodied GM's in '87 (which also saw the end of the RWD G-bodies). The LeMans saw the Chevette out of the room. Ford kept the RWD T-Bird/Cougar alive 'til '97, just one year after GM pulled the plug on the B/D bodies. Gm's last broad-selling RWD car, the Camaro, rolled over in '02, leaving only the CTS/Catera until the GTO could come to the rescue.

As Chrysler was the first to bail, they were also the first to jump back in. They actually replaced their midsize segment entry, the FWD LH cars, with the RWD LX cars. Whether the GTO actually hit showroom before the LX is inconsequental - the fact is that Chrysler threw everything they had at the effort and took a big gamble by giving up on a huge seller (the LH). GM simply slapped some boring bodywork on a foreign car and hoped for the best, not really caring if the venture was successful.

Now GM is learning from their GTO mistakes (GTO was 2-door, 2-big for a 2-door, 2-pricey, 2-bland) and is bringing an honest, affordable, mainstream four-door RWD sports sedan. 5 years after Chrysler did it.

Now Ford, who has become too used to sitting on the sidelines waiting for others to be successful, then trying to copy the success with too little, too late, is finally getting on the bandwagon.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #25 – March 25, 2008, 03:10:49 PM

I see what you mean, Carmen.

Quote

the fact is that Chrysler threw everything they had at the effort and took a big gamble by giving up on a huge seller (the LH).

You're right, they were the first to make a RWD volume seller commitment. The only problem is, it wasn't their car. The 300 was not a Chrysler, it just looked (vaguely) like one. The Charger is not a Dodge, and neither will the Challenger be when it comes. They are left overs from before the DMC 'merger' of Mercedes. And it doesn't just end there, the Crossfire is even worse, as it has no Chrysler engine either. Ever bit but the cheap interior and ugly bodywork is old (outdated) SLK. (as if the Chevette was really a Pony underneath) Maybe when the LY cars finally make it to market they will have some more Chrysler tech (which is pretty much just Mitsubishi tech these days) I'll see them as Chryslers, but now I see them as E's missing their funky headlights, wearing a Captain America costume.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #26 – March 25, 2008, 03:19:40 PM

Quote from: oldraven;210813

..... wearing a Captain America costume.

I always did think that was an ugly, silly-looking costume...as I think the LX cars are as well.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #27 – March 25, 2008, 04:12:59 PM

Quote from: 20th anny 5.o;210736

Heh kinda funny the mustang gets Falcon underpinnings again.

Hehehe I was thinking the SAME thing. Now if we can just get a slightly larger, more luxorious version of the Mustang (*cough*Tbird*cough*), then order would be restored.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #28 – March 25, 2008, 05:25:46 PM

Quote from: kingcars;210820

Hehehe I was thinking the SAME thing. Now if we can just get a slightly larger, more luxorious version of the Mustang (*cough*Tbird*cough*), then order would be restored.

And maybe show the Cougar some love?? , but alas i dont think Mercury will last much longer :(. Actually come to think of it this is Fords chance to bring the Cougar back the retro T bird's bad taste is still fresh in a lot of peoples mouths ( I personally would love to have one of the retro's but they are just to rare / expensive). Bring the Cougar back as a Mustang twin (Like it was originally) and offer some luxurious options that would be specific to the Cougar.

Ford Officially Commits to RWD

Reply #29 – March 25, 2008, 05:35:50 PM

Quote from: oldraven;210806

That 'Monument' of Ford's hasn't been true for the company for a very long time. They Pioneered the affordable car, and the mass production of it. Hyundai is truer to the first part, and mass production has been the way of Autoland for most of the last century. It's not the fight it used to be, since Ford has actually had competition for a long time now. All the coach-buider Automakers back then were like button makers, when out of nowhere comes Ford with their Zippers and Velcro.

The end of Ford as a pioneering company seemed to coinside with Jacques Nassar becoming President and CEO. The 2005 Mustang has been the only hit since then.