Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

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Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

August 24, 2007, 02:08:29 PM

Within the last two months or so I have noticed that whenever I turn the A/C on in my car, the compressor seems to be making a chirping noise when engaged. Which tells me that it's in the early stages of failing all together. Therefore, I am now hunting for a good HR980 Compressor to put on before the whole system goes bad and I lose all my R-12. Now my question is this:

Since I am rather cheap, do you think an A/C Repair place would be willing to evacuate and Store my R-12 until I'm able to get the New Compressor, take out the old one, and install the new one? Since I know how to change out the compressor myself, I would be saving quite a bit of money.

Once I have the new Compressor installed, I would go back, and have them put the R-12 back into the system. Minimal labor...just to recharge the system.

Would they go along with this? I've never asked to have my refrigerant stored before.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #1 – August 24, 2007, 02:17:06 PM

I converted mine to 134a blows ice cold, makes my ears go numb.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #2 – August 24, 2007, 02:22:49 PM

I highly doubt it, as even being in posetion of r-12 is illegal.
It's really illegal to charge a system with it again,most shops will yes evac it but will not reuse it,you will have to convert.
It's fairly cheap and easy to convert,just get a kit from napa with the fittings(under 100bucks up here should be even less down there).
You don't have to change the dryer if yours is in good shape and the rest of the system will work.
Also being a tc you already have electric fans so the r134 will work quite well and is also tons cheaper than any possible r-12 you find.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #3 – August 24, 2007, 02:46:54 PM

Quote from: dominator;171721

I highly doubt it, as even being in posetion of r-12 is illegal.
It's really illegal to charge a system with it again,most shops will yes evac it but will not reuse it,you will have to convert.

In the states it is not illegal to posses all you need is to take a simple test and get a card that says you are certified to buy it, they even sell it at parts stores. I still have the test here at home just need to send it in with the fee.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #4 – August 24, 2007, 04:26:34 PM

True, you can in fact still get R12 done, it just costs more.

You'd have to ask your local a/c place about the R12, but I doubt they'd "hold on to it". I'd expect the full R12 charge price on return (they'll take it from you at no charge). I bought a new compressor (and more) from ackits.com last year - works great. Maybe it was refurbished or something, I don't remember, but came looking new in box.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #5 – August 24, 2007, 05:39:58 PM

An A/C place can't "hold on" to your refrigerant.

When they recovery it, the refrigerant goes into a 30/50 lb tank. You should be able to get some sort of credit for your R-12. They'll still charge labor to recover/recharge, but with minimal cost of actual R-12. You should also have them leak check the system when you return it to them. If you end up doing a sub par job on the o-ring replacement, you'll end up with an expensive leak on your hands.

If your acspoogeulator is old, it should be replaced. You should probably also flush and replace the oil in the system for good measure.
I'm sure you won't take my advice, but there it is.

Quote from: 4bangen

I converted mine to 134a blows ice cold, makes my ears go numb.

The day your R-134a system blows ice cold in stop-n-go traffic, my 3.8 will run 12s in the 1/4 mile.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #6 – August 24, 2007, 10:58:48 PM

You cannot buy true r-12 any more unless it's on the black market.
US and CANADA laws are the same about this.
The small r-12a bottles you buy you can also get up here but they are not r-12 they are a variation of propane(read the ingredients).
The ozone depletion card(which i have and wrote the test for)allows you to posses r-134 NOT r-12 and it is illegal to sell it at all i can gaurentee you of this.
And LEGALLY you cannot get r-12 any more unless you goto a country like mexico.
These laws apply in all of north america and at least half of the world,r-12 is an ozone depleting suppstance no matter where you are on earth period.
And as far as a converted r-12 system running ice cold,mine is living proof and as soon as i add the electric fan for constant airflow across the evap at idle it will be the same in stop and go.
The secret to keeping r-134 cold is to make sure the evap always has air flowing across it to cool it down.
The size or amount of fins of an evap is irrellevent,i worked on a new ram today that had an evap half the size of mine yet it has anice big electric fan on it and it blew ice cold in 100 degree weather today so i call bs on you guys

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #7 – August 24, 2007, 11:38:37 PM

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #8 – August 25, 2007, 08:38:24 AM

I've had bad experiences in the past with another Turbo Coupe and trying to "Convert" it to R-134. I NEVER seemed cold enough (I live in Tucson, AZ). Granted, I didn't changed out the Acspoogeulator or Condenser.

The A/C in my car now is very good, and I'm convinced if I could just somehow get the Blower motor to speed up a little bit, it would be perfect, but I think the compressor is on it's way out.

Where can I locate a new "Acspoogeulator"? Is this necessary? I don't really know how old the one I have is.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #9 – August 25, 2007, 09:35:18 AM

Quote from: dominator;171827

You cannot buy true r-12 any more unless it's on the black market.
US and CANADA laws are the same about this.
The small r-12a bottles you buy you can also get up here but they are not r-12 they are a variation of propane(read the ingredients).
The ozone depletion card(which i have and wrote the test for)allows you to posses r-134 NOT r-12 and it is illegal to sell it at all i can gaurentee you of this.
And LEGALLY you cannot get r-12 any more unless you goto a country like mexico.
These laws apply in all of north america and at least half of the world,r-12 is an ozone depleting suppstance no matter where you are on earth period.
And as far as a converted r-12 system running ice cold,mine is living proof and as soon as i add the electric fan for constant airflow across the evap at idle it will be the same in stop and go.
The secret to keeping r-134 cold is to make sure the evap always has air flowing across it to cool it down.
The size or amount of fins of an evap is irrellevent,i worked on a new ram today that had an evap half the size of mine yet it has anice big electric fan on it and it blew ice cold in 100 degree weather today so i call bs on you guys

BS you say? I call BS upon you.

I'm not familiar with Canadian laws, but I am familiar with American ones. If you pass the EPA Section 609 test you are legally certified to buy/sell/handle R-12. I bought a 30-lb cylinder of R-12 last year from E-bay. I can buy another cylinder right now if I wish. It is not illegal to buy/sell R-12 once you get your Section 609 certification.

The size and amount of fins on the condenser (not evaporator in this case) is very important. New condensers are parallel flow. They provide approximately 33% more heat transfer than a tube-fin condenser. An undersized condenser will result in poor cooling - primarily in stop-n-go traffic. Fox bodies are notorious for inadequate stop-n-go A/C performance. I have yet to see a converted Fox blow 40 degree vent temps while sitting still - blower on high.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #10 – August 25, 2007, 10:43:48 AM

yeah one important thing

evaporator = the "radiator" that air is blown over by the blower fan, ie the one that gets cold

condensor = the one that gets hot and is in front of the car radiator.

its called an evaporator because the refrigerant (currently a liquid) evaporates using the heat of the air blown over it, causing it to cool the surface it evaoprated from, thus the evap gets cold, and so does the air in your thundercat :D

on another note--I think I have lost count of how many times someone has had an issue and one of the responses has been:

"Oh man you gotta understand FOX BODIES ARE NOTORIOUS FOR BAD.....(insert whatever the problem is)

its amazing what we put up with from these stupid things!!!! lol

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #11 – August 25, 2007, 11:41:13 AM

So JeremyB, If I install a larger condenser coil on my car, then I should have better cooling??. Especially since I plan on moving to the Vegas area.
John

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #12 – August 25, 2007, 12:00:22 PM

try setting a box fan in front of your condenser first, see if that helps cooling at all. if it does, just throw an electric fan on the front.
oh, and someone's gotta be able to get r-12. i believe it's still used in home a/c systems. well, that's what my teacher told us, and he's quite credible.

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #13 – August 25, 2007, 12:03:05 PM

Quote from: DMC24guy;171718

Within the last two months or so I have noticed that whenever I turn the A/C on in my car, the compressor seems to be making a chirping noise when engaged. Which tells me that it's in the early stages of failing all together. Therefore, I am now hunting for a good HR980 Compressor to put on before the whole system goes bad and I lose all my R-12. Now my question is this:

Since I am rather cheap, do you think an A/C Repair place would be willing to evacuate and Store my R-12 until I'm able to get the New Compressor, take out the old one, and install the new one? Since I know how to change out the compressor myself, I would be saving quite a bit of money.

Once I have the new Compressor installed, I would go back, and have them put the R-12 back into the system. Minimal labor...just to recharge the system.

Would they go along with this? I've never asked to have my refrigerant stored before.

If they recover your r12 and give you some type of credit, that would be great. I imagine it would be close to a wash if even that, the credit vs the labor to recover. Anyway at least you wouldn't be venting it.
As far as reuse? Maybe if they recycle and dry the refrigerant out, but it would be better to go with virgin refrigerant(moisture free).

134 could be an option for you, before you replace the compressor. The compressor may be making noise due to being low on oil, but chirping could also be a belt. "Reclaim" the refrigerant, dump as much of the oil out of the compressor and fill it with a compatible oil(4-6oz). I think it's ester 100 from Napa, but I can't be certain. They sell two different types of bicompatible refrigerant oils. One of them smells bad, DO NOT use that one because when it degrades it smells even worse. Once you have installed the compatible oil, you just need to figuire a way to vacuum and charge the system with r134a. Finding a way to vacuum the system may be the toughest part. Maybe someone here has a cheap idea? I wouldn't replace that compressor till it locked or couldn't produce any pressures. You would then be out just on the cost of refrigerant, oil, and some fittings. Orings should also be replaced whenever the system is not charged.
In addition, r134a MAY not cool as well as the 12, so you just have to weigh all the pluses, minuses and what is available. The blended refrigerants are too questionable imo.

Mike

Project Elimination: The Mysterious Underhood Chirping

Reply #14 – August 25, 2007, 12:35:57 PM

Quote from: ZondaC12;171906

yeah one important thing

evaporator = the "radiator" that air is blown over by the blower fan, ie the one that gets cold

condensor = the one that gets hot and is in front of the car radiator.

its called an evaporator because the refrigerant (currently a liquid) evaporates using the heat of the air blown over it, causing it to cool the surface it evaoprated from, thus the evap gets cold, and so does the air in your thundercat :D

on another note--I think I have lost count of how many times someone has had an issue and one of the responses has been:

"Oh man you gotta understand FOX BODIES ARE NOTORIOUS FOR BAD.....(insert whatever the problem is)

its amazing what we put up with from these stupid things!!!! lol

Yes, when the refrigerant vaporizes it removes heat from the surrounding surfaces.:bowdown:
The orifice is the pressure differential device that actually start the boiling/vaporizing process. Any residual liquid is then stored in the acspoogeulator to prevent liquid from locking the compressor.