Price of 87-88 Cougars

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Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #15 – July 13, 2007, 11:14:25 AM

Quote from: EricCoolCats;160523

Then why do 150hp Tiffany Classic Cougars (an old car built from a new car that looks like a REALLY old car) routinely go for over $25,000?

Maybe it's because the only people that bought those Tiffany cars when they were new, were people with more money than sense (or taste) and that may still be true today.

I remember the first time I saw one of those cars in person. It was on display inside the Orlando airport terminal. I was on my senior trip and I remember most of my female classmates thought it was so cool looking but I thought it was the most hideous looking car I had ever seen. Of course I was probably the only one who knew that they had chopped up a perfectly good looking Cougar to make this thing and that had tainted my opinion of it greatly.

Brent
:cougarsmily:

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #16 – July 13, 2007, 12:03:16 PM

My God! We have had this same conversation probably four times this year!

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #17 – July 13, 2007, 12:18:17 PM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken;160516

Had these cars been offered with the HO V8 as an option (maybe a Thunderbird GT and definitely the Cougar XR7) they'd be every bit as collectible now as a Grand National, Monte Carlo SS, or even a Mustang.

Yeah, but look at late 80's Camaros and Firebirds. Everybody knows they're 80's cars, they even have High Output V8 engines, but they don't command anymore than our cars do.

(I do agree about our cars being ahead of their time in the looks department. Especially the 87-88's. They almost have that plasticky look of 90's cars.)

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #18 – July 13, 2007, 12:36:39 PM

Quote from: DMC24guy;160546

Yeah, but look at late 80's Camaros and Firebirds. Everybody knows they're 80's cars, they even have High Output V8 engines, but they don't command anymore than our cars do.

(I do agree about our cars being ahead of their time in the looks department. Especially the 87-88's. They almost have that plasticky look of 90's cars.)

Your market has a significantly different opinion than my market does on late 80's F-bodies. Around here 87-92 V6 and TBI 305 F-bodies routinely go for over $2500, and TPI V8 models (Z/28, IROC, Trans Am, GTA) routinely go for anywhere between $5-$10k, depending on condition. Even 87-92 Mustangs with the 5.0 rarely go for under $5k and if they're in any decent sort of condition go for over $10k (there's actually an '88 advertised in our local paper right now that has 150k miles on it and "requires bodywork" - Nova Scotia slang for "It's a basket case" for $4500). The crazy high prices people want for beater 5.0's is largely why I haven't done the T5 swap to my car yet - I'm not going to pay $3k or more for a parts car to do a tranny swap. 4-cyl Mustangs, on the other hand, are worth beater prices at best. If you could get $1500 for a mint, low mile '92 4-cyl 5-speed Mustang you'd be doing good.

There's also a 12k-mile 88 Monte SS in the local bargain paper for an asking price of $18,000. This is a good example of asking VS selling price - the car might be just like new (as the ad says, anyway) and it might even be a desirable body style, but the ad has been in the paper for about 8 months so far and counting. Our local market just isn't ready for an $18k Monte Carlo (and I must question whether that car would bring $18k anywhere, including B-J). Grand Nationals, on the other hand, will easily fetch over $10k locally if the car is halfway presentable...

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #19 – July 13, 2007, 12:47:36 PM

Quote from: EricCoolCats;160523

But dammit, there's something about that V6. It's not fast, by any stretch...but it's so light on its feet, so responsive, so surprisingly full of torque where it's needed, you almost forget the fact that it's so horsepower challenged. It's actually FUN to drive. Throttle response is very good for CFI.

It has torque for day-to-day requirements of in-town driving, but only that. It fees like 75% of the power is used up with 25% of the throttle. If you're accelerating normally, but decide to slip into a spot ahead, you'll be sorely disappointed when you floor it. Trying to pass a car on two-lane roads in anything but perfect cirspoogestances? Forgetaboutit!

The 3.27s in my '87 inject a smidgen of liveliness into driving, but the 2.73s in my '85 make it a turd unless you're cruising on the interstate.

Just my opinion.

However, in their favor...the '84-'87 CFI 3.8s were just as good as any other V6 during their time. The only problem was that Ford sat on its ass as other V6s began to use split port designs and blow the Esshag out of the water horsepower wise. Ford caught up in 1999 and let the 3.8 die in 2004 while still an equal with its peers.

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #20 – July 13, 2007, 01:32:06 PM

Quote

It has torque for day-to-day requirements of in-town driving, but only that. It fees like 75% of the power is used up with 25% of the throttle. If you're accelerating normally, but decide to slip into a spot ahead, you'll be sorely disappointed when you floor it. Trying to pass a car on two-lane roads in anything but perfect cirspoogestances? Forgetaboutit!

The 3.27s in my '87 inject a smidgen of liveliness into driving, but the 2.73s in my '85 make it a turd unless you're cruising on the interstate.

Just my opinion.

The CFI 3.8 is making peak torque (205 lb-ft) at just 1600 rpms, while peak horsepower (either 112 or 120, depending on the source) comes on at 3600 rpms. That pretty much explains the lack of usable power right there LOL.

Back when I drove the first '84 every day, what you said about the engine was generally true. It could get to be a pain. Many times did I wish for a V8. Right now I treat this '84--an occasional driver--like I'm stepping on eggshells. I'm laying off the throttle as much as possible, not passing people, going for drives on long stretches of road, etc. In essence, I'm becoming an old person in the way I drive it. But in return I'm getting incredible fuel economy, very good performance in going from Point A to B (not like a 5.0 but decent nonetheless), and a huge return on my investment. So it's not a worthless engine by any means.

It's all in how you drive it. I'm not trying to fry the tires or carve wikked corners with it. But in those brief instances where I want to push it a little more than normal, it's responded surprisingly well, much better than I ever remember my old V6 car being. It's not perfect...still have a few bugs to work out...but for what it is, no real complaints. It's still propelling my car without complaint.

The lack of overdrive on the earlier cars is really evident. Passing gear on the freeway is MUCH better with an '87 than with an '85, thanks to the AOD vs. the older C5. The '88 3.8 is a very snappy motor. The numbers are very close to the V8 for peak horsepower (140 vs. 155 V8), and even the torque crept up (205 @ 1600 vs. 275 @ 2000 for the V8). Plus it has overdrive. So toward the end of the Fox car run the 3.8 matured into a very livable engine for daily driving. It seems all 3.8's love the freeway, regardless of fuel delivery type. I don't know...this could be argued all day, but anemic as people make it out to be, it's really not that bad of an engine. It's just relegated to living its remaining days in the shadow of the 302.

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #21 – July 13, 2007, 01:37:44 PM

I actually agree that the V6 was good for its time - it compared quite well to the naturally aspirated Buick 3.8 found as base engine in the G-bodies (in fact it was smoother thanks to its split pin crank, and more advanced thanks to its aluminum heads, fuel injection, roller cam, and in 88, port fuel injection). When people buy a base car with the base engine they can expect base power levels. It's the V8 that I maintain was severely underpowered.

Back to values. I am bored (I have decreed this "Do Nothing Day" - a day that I plan on relaxing and doing absolutely nothing, for the first time in months) so I looked up some cars for sale locally.

I was able to find but one example of a Fox Thundercat, a 1984 Turbo Coupe with an asking price of $2k. I had considered this car before buying the lincoln, but it does not look good in the pics:
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-under-5K-1984-Thunderbird-W0QQAdIdZ14407063 $2000
This was the only example I could find. Now, compare that to similar-period G-bodies (note the asking prices):
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-87-monte-carlo-ss-W0QQAdIdZ13982523 $9500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1984-Monte-Carlo-SS-W0QQAdIdZ17502478 Needs body work on rockers and quarters $7500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1988-monte-carlo-ss-W0QQAdIdZ16801050 $12k
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1985-Oldsmobile-Cutlass-Supreme-W0QQAdIdZ17534518 V6, 65k miles, $8400
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-buick-grand-national-W0QQAdIdZ16391876 $25k

...And the F-bodies:
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1985-Pontiac-Trans-Am-Sell-or-Trade-W0QQAdIdZ17658915 $6000
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1988-IROC-Z-28-CAMARO-W0QQAdIdZ14090415 $9500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-over-5K-1989-Pontiac-TransAM-W0QQAdIdZ17572785 $8500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-under-5K-1990-pontiac-firebird-W0QQAdIdZ17453786 $3000
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1982-Pontiac-Firebird-W0QQAdIdZ17450748 V6 $3500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-under-5K-Pontiac-Firebird-W0QQAdIdZ17042388 V6 $3500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1988-Firebird-Formula-5-0-litre-W0QQAdIdZ16810224 $5900
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-over-5K-1988-IROC-Z-Camaro-350-MUST-SELL-I-HAVE-A-NEW-CAR-W0QQAdIdZ17453090 $8500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1989-CAMARO-Z-28-IROC-Z-W0QQAdIdZ17427169 $7900

...And finally, the Mustangs:
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-under-5K-1990-Ford-Mustang-LX-Hatchback-W0QQAdIdZ17376636 4-cyl $1850
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-over-5K-1990-FORD-MUSTANG-LX-W0QQAdIdZ17556472 5.0 $9000
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-over-5K-1990-FORD-MUSTANG-5-0L-5-SPEED-W0QQAdIdZ17443144 5.0 $7500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-over-5K-5-0L-Cobra-T-tops-Red-Mustang-5-Speed-W0QQAdIdZ17222920 $8500
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-over-5K-1992-mustang-gt-convertable-W0QQAdIdZ17093138 $12k
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-over-5K-1990-5-0-Mustang-Cobra-W0QQAdIdZ17045444 $5900
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-5-0-mustang-convertable-W0QQAdIdZ16953334 $7800
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-under-5K-1984-mustang-svo-W0QQAdIdZ16648476 $4999 needs work, restoration started
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-under-5K-92-Mustang-W0QQAdIdZ16169492 5.0, car has been sitting, needs work, interior "fair"

As you can see there are two disturbing things here: First, the prices people are asking for these cars (I did not go through these ads and select the best ones to prove my point, I merely typed "Monte Carlo", "Cutlass", "Grand National", "Thunderbird", "Cougar" and "Mustang" into the search box and picked the first complete cars that showed up (in other words I ruled out vehicles being advertised as "for parts" or "Parts or repair") from the model year range (83-92 - I would have picked 83-88, but since Mustangs and F-bodies both had the same body styles into the 90's I included them). I also selected "show newest ads first" instead or sorting by price to eliminate that variable. I should also point out that for Mustangs and F-bodies I picked only the first few examples out of pages and pages of ads, compared to one single ad for the T-Bird. I know "asking" versus "selling" prices are different, but the fact is that the ads are pretty much unanimous in that G-bodies, F-bodies and V8 Fox body Stangs are commanding crazy money, at least around here. I mean, the cheapest drivable F-body was a mid 80's V6 model for $3k.

That's the second disturbing thing - there are literally dozens of G-bodies, Mustangs and third gen F-bodies to choose from, but one single fox 'Bird, and not a very nice one at that. Now you can see why it took me so long to find my car, and why I settled on a V8 T-Bird instead of the TC or 87-88 Coug I'd have rather had...

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #22 – July 13, 2007, 02:55:39 PM

Hey Carm, I'll play :hick: The better half is taking a nap so I have a "do-nothing" half hour :D

Here's a "driver" 160K 30th Bird in town local to me. I've lusted after one of these for years. This car does not have the jacket, floormats, paperwork, etc. Yet I'm STILL considering the $1895 price.
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/car/371578643.html

How about a pretty nice 84 5.0 Bird for $650? Sounds cheap right? Except the tranny is shot! $650 and it needs a trans. 2 years ago this was a $200 car. Now, $650 makes me want to go get it.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/car/368762194.html

How about an 88? V6, a few options, TC nose treatment. $1000. Did I mention it's in primer, has rust, and has generally been abused off-road? I know this car will not sell for $1000, but he'll get $500-$750 easy.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/car/369540872.html

Where's the rest? Simply put, not here. Not a SINGLE Cougar with a picture (and only 1 without), NO TC's. Slim pickins. Supply goes down, demand goes up.

Now for the fun part! Since I never look up those other cars, this should be fun :D

Monte Carlo SS - Only 1 for sale for $8,000. Same guy has 7 ads out on it.

No GN's.

Camaro!
Here's a 91 with a carb on it for $2300
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/car/372563378.html

An 85 for $1700
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/car/372349343.html

88 IROC for $1400
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/car/370618259.html

See? The TBirds (and Cats when they're listed) hold their own with the TPI cars.

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #23 – July 13, 2007, 03:07:04 PM

Here's two near Olympia on Craigslist this week. The one in Puallup is temping because it black just like mine.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/car/369283764.html
2.3 Turbo coupe w/ 133957 miles
Needs some TLC, It has a few dings & scratches, ceiling felt is coming down
No stereo, 900.00 OBO
360-459-1879

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/car/369214616.html
1987 thunderbird turbo coupe - $800
87 turbo coupe drives great but performance is down I think its the mass air flow sensor power goes flat after 4000 rpm car is 20 years old so there is wear and tear great fixer upper lots of parts avalible on ebay to get it back in shape 253 370 8988

If these were Mustang Coupes they would be 3k plus.

TED

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #24 – July 13, 2007, 04:16:01 PM

Quote from: EricCoolCats;160523

Now if we can just convince the general public...

i sure as hell hope not. if i wanted a car the public thought was cool, id have bought a mustang.

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #25 – July 13, 2007, 06:23:02 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;160577

Supply goes down, demand goes up.

You'd think that, except in some cases the supply goes down because nobody bothers keeping them. Sadly, that has been the case with our cars for a good 15-20 years. The supply is getting smaller every day but it's still not at the point that it can't meet the very limited demand. I'm not saying that they haven't hit the bottom and started to bounce back, but they've got a long way to go before they start bringing "Mustang money".

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #26 – July 13, 2007, 07:32:31 PM

I just grabbed a really nice '88 XR-7 up here for $1500 So there are still cheap ones out there.

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #27 – July 13, 2007, 09:46:44 PM

I'm glad these cars are cheap. Makes it easier to have a variety. My cats aren't investments and I really don't care if they stay the same value. I'd like them just as much either way but staying cheap allows more in the fleet.
They are low-cost, not too common (around here anyway), and still look good.

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #28 – July 13, 2007, 10:24:47 PM

Quote from: Jim_Miller;160484

Eric has the right idea.
Often people look at "asking" prices and say "I dident know it was worth that much!"

It's not, thats simply what there asking!

I could post mine on craigslist or E-bay for $10k... that doesent mean I would sell it for that. Yet is Would be what I was 'asking"

On that list you made Xjeffs, those appear to be "asking" prices (based on comments such as "must see, 81k miles") go back and check those adds you saw and see if anyone actualy bought them for those prices.

what is the "Purchase" price, not the "Asking" price

I sure HOPE so, but I would be suprised.

I've been watching these for a year and I'm sure they won't sell for that much. They would probably sell for 33-50% of the value. I was simply asking if there was a trend of dream pricing at the beginning of the summer, sell pricing at the end.

Price of 87-88 Cougars

Reply #29 – July 13, 2007, 10:32:50 PM

Quote from: yellow86coogr;160493

Check this out in Columbus, Ohio: http://columbus.craigslist.org/car/367470323.html
Another nice 88' $700.00, with white turbines, in Cleveland, Ohio
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/car/365776422.html

Post those in "Leads" forum when you see 'em. I am avoiding cars from the rust belt though.

I post a bunch that I find including an 88 XR-7 in Vegas with leather that the guy just dropped the price to $500 cuz it's been on his lot for so long.