There´s not replacement for Displacement....

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There´s not replacement for Displacement....

February 05, 2005, 05:09:45 PM

I have read too many boards about this topic. I´m one of the persons that believe that with the same car, same technology, same mods, same aerodinamics, but bigger the displacement is better than the other with smaller disp. I read that a little engine (you know, imports) can do better than a bigger engine.

Some words that i seen was:

(There´s a replacement for displacement. It´s called forced induction...) maybe he dont know that the turbos and superchargers has been built from 100 years....

(There´s a replacement for displacement. It´s called technology...)

the worst was:

(There´s a replacement for displacement. It´s called NOS)

These arguments are based like "i put in my supra nos and turbo and i left your chevelle eating dust".....it has no sense, because i can put a turbo and Nos in the chevelle and the car will fly over the supra because the displacement is bigger, the torque is bigger and the power is bigger. For me, putting the same mods to the big block and this will be faster, I guess this is without doubt a physics law....

What do you think ?

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #1 – February 05, 2005, 05:33:33 PM

power to weight "ratio"(sp?) otherwise, i agree

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #2 – February 05, 2005, 06:16:38 PM

yeah that is why all of the ricers with under 100hp are faster then sone 5.0's. What I tell them when they bring up how much faster their 1.6 liter civic is I just tell them that that is okay, because my 5.0 engine only weighs more then you whole civic. I saw a bumper sticker that said yeah you barely beat me, but my car weighs almost 5,000lbs has 7 people in it and I am hauling a trailer. I saw it on a station wagon with a hitch

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #3 – February 05, 2005, 07:34:35 PM

I once read a guys story....went something like this..... "A ricer wanted to play with me one night.... So we raced down the highway untill we were at 130 miles an hour... Then I decided to slow down because I figured with the 2000 pounds of tools in the back of the van and the bobcat on the trailer this might be a little too much for the ol 460ci."

It went something like that, I know it was one of the greatest storrys.

Also reading one of the Power Tour articles in Hot Rod I Got this one. Writtin by the editor.

"Speeding down the interstate in a group of Hot Rods I couldn't help but notice to our right a Porsche Boxter was pulling onto the highway. The car merged then procided to pass all of us in our Hot Rods. A fully customized Cadillac from the fourties must not have liked this...... When the Porsche sped past him you could hear is pipes scream to life! The big Caddy caught up and scared the out of the Porshiznit driver because he got off on the next exit......"

Yea I like reading that one alot!

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #4 – February 05, 2005, 08:20:55 PM

My 4 banger neon was quicker than my current tbird (87 3.

by quite a bit. If raced side by side, my tbird would easily get the jump but fall behind in the long run. It also weighs more by about 1000 pounds. Oddly enough, the horsepower in the neon matches that of the tbird. The tbird is a lot more torquey because of the higher displacement. It would be tough to get the same amount of low end torque on a smaller motor. Given identical technology and identical bolt-ons, the bigger motor would previal. The only way around it would be to knock the weight off of whatever has the smaller motor. The replacement for displacement is weight reduction...

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #5 – February 05, 2005, 09:00:42 PM

Can you survive a 30 mph crash in a civic?? Ive seen some people in relatively minor crashes in small cars come out looking like they got hit by a train or something. When you do find yourself in a car wreck having the extra mass helps out. Hey not to mention the big motor sounds way better than a those silly fart cans.

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #6 – February 05, 2005, 10:23:11 PM

as for the saying, id have to agree with forced induction being a replacement

i took the turbo coupe out today, and the thing is pretty quick, definatly shames my 3.8L, with 2 less cylinders, but the turbo is what makes up for it

the N/A version of the EFI 2.3, puts out about 98hp, with the turbo, its putting out 190hp, 240ft/lbs, and is pretty quick, where as the 3.8 in my car was rated at 120hp and 215ft/lbs

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #7 – February 05, 2005, 10:47:17 PM

I'm agreeing with Shawn, forced induction is a good replacement for displacement.But addng a huffer or turbo to a 4 cyl so it can ALMOST equal a stock HO 5.0 ain't my cup of tea.. Yea the boost(or displacement) can be increased, but increasing either has diminishing returns. Me I'm old school(or is that just plain old :( ), one of these days there is gonna be a 406 Windsor stroker in my Bird(yea its probably a bit of overkill).

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #8 – February 05, 2005, 11:15:34 PM

Quote

The replacement for displacement is weight reduction...

couldnt be said any better than that!

forced induction can be looked at as replacemend but its an add on. going by displacement alone theres no replacement. only weight reduction and torque multiblication can make or break the displacement argument imho.

than again, wich would be faster...5.0 V8 or say a 5.0 V10? displacement alone cant be the only factor.

i think that theres plenty of arguements for eithers sake. take crotch rockets into consideration. very small displacement yet very light, effecient torque multiplication...

bottom line is personal prefferance, and COST. id rather have a slower american rumbling V8 than a buzzcan srt4 anyday. even though they are decent little cars.

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #9 – February 05, 2005, 11:32:01 PM

Quote

the N/A version of the EFI 2.3, puts out about 98hp, with the turbo, its putting out 190hp, 240ft/lbs, and is pretty quick, where as the 3.8 in my car was rated at 120hp and 215ft/lbs

You kinda made mexcougar's argument. if you put turbo to the 3.8 it might do 220 hp. (i have no idea, just an example) Point being your starting out with a smaller engine, boosting it to make it perform like a bigger engine. It is indeed a replacement for displacement in many ways. BUT it's also a crutch because when that turbo goes out the car can barely pull itself down the road. I think there are advantages to both ways. Putting it into the t-bird to me is kind of a waste because there is room for the big motor. If your dealing with a civic with a small engine bay boosting makes sense. Doesn't boosted engines have more potential for better gas mileage? If you don't step on it will it not get descent gas as you are not running the extra air and gas?

Anybody that says NOS is a replacement for displacement is smok'n' crack, because NOS runs out.

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #10 – February 06, 2005, 02:45:38 AM

as for saying, if the turbo goes out, the car could barely make it home...my argument for that is, at least the turbo is a separate assembly and can easily be replaced, going on the same pril, if your big engine cracks a piston, blows a headgasket, etc, it could still limp home, so either way, its the same ordeal, you break it, it limps

the thing with turboing certain engines, as you bring up the 3.8L, they have to be built strong enough to handle the turbo, a 3.8L would fold under the turbo, but the 2.3 being an iron headed car, with dished pistons, some engines handle it where as others dont

im all for a big, nasty V8, torque monster, lopey cam, burbling exhaust, heart thumping resonance in your chest when you got WOT, but the smaller displacement turbo cars are usually much more street friendly, unless youre in the boost, it drives like a normal 4 banger, and gets the milage of a normal 4 banger

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #11 – February 06, 2005, 09:52:11 AM

Quote from: Tbird232ci

im all for a big, nasty V8, torque monster, lopey cam, burbling exhaust, heart thumping resonance in your chest when you got WOT, but the smaller displacement turbo cars are usually much more street friendly, unless youre in the boost, it drives like a normal 4 banger, and gets the milage of a normal 4 banger

your right

which is about the same as my big, nasty Blown!!V8, torque monster, lopey cam,burbling exhaust, heart thumping resonance in your chest when you got WOT

:raspberry:raspberry

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #12 – February 06, 2005, 10:21:01 AM

the only bad thing about displacement is called rotational mass. like that guy on hotroding that had a camaro? with a coustome fuei 700 cubic inch engine made that will eat any stroked and poked 460 turned 600's ass. something like that, if ya gun it you could flip the car lol.

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #13 – February 06, 2005, 12:32:06 PM

Quote from: Blown306Cougar

your right

which is about the same as my big, nasty Blown!!V8, torque monster, lopey cam,burbling exhaust, heart thumping resonance in your chest when you got WOT :raspberry:raspberry

your car isnt that exciting....

Re: There´s not replacement for Displacement....

Reply #14 – February 06, 2005, 01:51:58 PM

Quote from: Tbird232ci

your car isnt that exciting....

Hey, as long as you impress yourself, I guess that's all that really matters?

Meh.. I don't get all hot and bothered over raw power and all that. Had a friend with a LeMans packing just shy of 600 hp, if I recall.. but he was stuck driving it to work regularly (at an optimistic 8 mpg).. and he was insanely jealous of me at the time for having a brand new car ('92 Daytona IROC) that got 20 mpg more than his did, and didn't look half bad doing it. (for being pretty much a warmed-over K-car) On top of that, he was (at the time.. we were both in our early 20s then) what I'd consider a typical muscle-car guy.. put everything into the engine and tranny, (beefed-up TH400, he could literally dig holes in the pavement with that car) and nothing into suspension or any of that. So while my lowly Daytona was glued to the road at ~125 mph and never got me into any serious trouble no matter what I did to it, his LeMans ended its life wrapped around the base of some shop sign near one of the industrial parks here because he lost control of it.