Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise... (Read 2212 times) previous topic - next topic

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

I knew the F4 block was a roller block, but everyone had been telling me that even though it's a roller block, it would not have a roller cam. I was told that the lifter valley would be machined for the dogbones and spider, but that the engine would have simple flat tappets.

WRONGO! Imagine my surprise when I popped the intake manifold off and saw the spider, the dogbones, and yes, I do believe those are roller lifters!



Actually, I verified that they are roller lifters by pulling one out after taking the heads off, but my hands were too dirty to handle the camera.

I also got another nice surprise: This engine is in remarkably good condition considering it's got over 400,000 km on it (about 250k miles). The cross hatches are still visible in the bores, and there was very little sludge in the heads and lifter valley. I haven't taken the oil pan off yet, so I don't know what kind of shape the crank is in, but it's starting to look like this might be a fairly cheap engine to build (yes, I know the stock pistons are cast, but they should serve my purpose nicely if they're in good shape).
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #1 –
now thats an easter egg!!  glad to hear of your good fortune.  now go rub it in all those folks faces that said it wouldnt be roller. >:D

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #2 –
Mmmmm torque :D
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #3 –
Cool!  I wonder if mine will be rooler cam too?  I guess I will have to drag it out from under the workbench and dig in to it soon.:D

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #4 –
Awesome.It keeps getting better and better.I am hoping to go 5.8 next year with my Bird.Once I get the engine,I'll start gathering the few other parts I need,headers,lower intake,oil pan.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #5 –
Sweet deal.  Hopefully the res of the motor is in as good as shape.  It's amazing what proper care to a motor can do for it.

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #6 –
I coulda told you an F4 block was roller. The E7 truck blocks arnt roller. F4 is.
It's Gumby's fault.

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #7 –
Yes, Shawn, I knew F4 blocks were roller as verified by the first sentence in my post above (actually I knew that 94 and newer blocks were rollers, but the F4 part didn't even occur to me until somebody mentioned it in my "Engine Fairy" thread). What I didn't know was that the block would actually have a roller cam in it. Everybody that I'd talked to about this engine (including some people on this forum, I believe) has told me that the '94 and newer block was machined for roller lifters, but that it would still have a flat-tappet cam in it. Because of this I was rather surprised to find a roller cam in there.

I suppose the roller cam isn't really that big a bonus, since I'll be changing cams anyway, but it's nice to have the hardware...
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #8 –
i pulled a 351 out of a 95 bronco a few months ago and it was roller. i know for a fact it's the origional motor, my dad's buddy owned the truck since new and baby'd the thing until he hit a pole.

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #9 –
You would certainly NOT be able to see any crosshatch marks in the cylinders if it was an untouched 250K mile engine...chances are it was rebuilt not too long ago...some new gaskets and you're in business.
Project 3G: Grandpa Grocery Getter-'85 Crown Vic LTD 2-door, 351W with heavily ported/polished GT40 heads, heavily ported/polished Typhoon Power Plus upper & lower intake, Comp Cams 265DEH retarded 1*, FAST EZ-EFI, HD T5, 8.8" 3.73 trac lock with extra clutches, 3G alt. swap, '99 CVPI front brakes, '09 CVPI rear disc brakes, '00 CVPI booster&m/c + wilwood adj prop valve.

Parted & Gone-'88 T-bird Sport, 351W swap, ported GT40 heads

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #10 –
I may be wrong but i believe it was his brothers van and i am pretty sure he did the work on it so he would know if it was rebuilt. BUT as i said I could be wrong.

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #11 –
88sportcoupe is right - it was my brother's van. He put 150k of those 250k miles on it, so I know it hasn't been touched in at least that long. As for how it was treated before he bought it, it's anyone's guess. There are no markings on the pistons indicating they're oversize.

I was particularly surprised about the lack of any sludge in the engine. My brother is well known for not taking care of his vehicles. Part of the reason the van was junked was that the front brakes wore right down into the fins of the rotors, allowing the pistons to pop out of the calipers. The same thing happened with his other van ('97 E250, 4.2 V6) - he told me the brakes were squealing. I told him to bring me the van, and I even picked him up a set of pads at work. Two months passed, then he showed up with the van on a wrecker - the front wheel locked up when the rotor exploded. The squeal, apparently, had degraded into a grinding as the pad wore into the rotor. The rotor got thinner and thinner (and covered the entire side of the van in metal filings, which then rusted) until it finally came apart. It took out the caliper and spindle when it did (and deeply gouged the rim as well). A $40 brake pad swap turned into a $600 pad/rotor/bearings/spindle swap.

He's been driving his 2000 F150 4X4 with four bald tires and a worn out idler arm for months. The 4WD didn't work in that truck for a year after he blew the engine and had another shop install a used one (I didn't have a garage at the time, so I couldn't do it for him). When I say he "blew" the engine I mean it - he blew the whole front end off that 4.2. When he did, some oil caught fire and burned some vacuum lines up. The shop that replaced the engine didn't bother repairing the vacuum lines. One day when he was here tiling my bathroom I went out, plugged two vacuum lines in, and fixed it. It was that simple.

He works his vehicles HARD and cannot understand the fact that taking a vehicle off the road for a day now might save him hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. He always insisted that he got the oil changed regularly, and nobody believed him, but I guess he really did. The only good thing about him being hard on his vehicles is that I get the ss - I'll soon have a 4.2 V6 lying around waiting for a swap into a four-eye (complete with freshly rebuilt 4R70W). The bad thing, of course, is that I get to do the work to the vehicles until they become s...
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #12 –
AFIK beginning with the '94 models all 351s except the Lightnings got the roller cam... The F4 casting 351 I sold a couple of years ago came with the roller cam... That one was from a buddies '94 F-150... I've heard the late '93s also had the roller cam, but that may be just because the F4 blocks were cast beginning in '93(my F4 block was cast Nov '93)...

BTW my '93 Lightning has a F2 block which is not roller compatable...

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #13 –
hey vinnie if you got a 302 in your car now i want it when you pull it for that 5.8

So I took the 351 apart today, and got a surprise...

Reply #14 –
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;149588
AFIK beginning with the '94 models all 351s except the Lightnings got the roller cam... The F4 casting 351 I sold a couple of years ago came with the roller cam... That one was from a buddies '94 F-150... I've heard the late '93s also had the roller cam, but that may be just because the F4 blocks were cast beginning in '93(my F4 block was cast Nov '93)...

BTW my '93 Lightning has a F2 block which is not roller compatable...

Now, see, that is the exact opposite of what everyone had been telling me. I was (mis)informed that only the Lightning got the roller cam, while lesser 351's had a block that could accept one, but didn't get one. Looks like I shoulda asked you first :bowdown: Strange that the high-performance version of the 351 would be the one that didn't get the roller cam...

So what would be the difference between an F2 and an E7 block?
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣