89 LSC brake woes (long post)

August 10, 2006, 10:19:26 PM

EDIT: As I said in the response post: Nevermind. Got the answers elsewhere.

So much for getting the brakes done by someone else.. the guy quoted us $800 (with labor) to do all four rotors and pads, and all the little incidentals that come with it. (wheel bearings, front seals, caliper rebuild, that sorta thing) We thought he was insane at first, even realizing that he doesn't like to use the cheapest possible parts. (so we're not back on his doorstep 2 months later) However, doing some poking around on AutoHole's site and other places makes the problem a bit clearer: ABS. Because of the ABS system, AutoHole (for an example) wants $60 each for front rotors and $90 each for rear rotors. At $300 total just for the rotors (I've seen rotors on Rock Auto as high as $115, and the pads aren't cheap either) it starts to seem a little less insane. However, not sane enough for me to go through with having him do it. Pain or no pain, it looks like I'm stuck doing the brakes myself or throwing a few bucks at another friend to get his help.

Here's where the questions begin: It has been suggested to me that I disregard the ABS and buy brakes without the exciter ring. OK, sure.. I can live without ABS.. I've never triggered it anyway, all the other vehicles I drive don't have it so I'm not accustomed to using it, and all it really is to me is a warning light and a relay that occasionally sticks and sucks my battery dry. But then I'm open to a whole range of rotors to choose from. (on Rock Auto.. AutoHole doesn't list for this)

- First question: Is there much of a quality difference in rotors, pricewise? I have a range of around $20 to $115 per rotor to choose from:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1188446,parttype,1896

- Second question: Is it a bad idea to mix brake pad quality from front to back? Say, for example, I used ceramic pads (Morse, from AutoHole) on the front brakes and a premium non-metallic (Wagner ThermoQuiet from Rock Auto) on the rears. It's about $38 for the ceramic fronts, and $28 for the non-metallic rears. Is this a non-issue?

- Third question: (two part) I've seen a few people here recently post about problems with calipers using phenolic pistons. It would seem I probably have phenolic pistons as well, up front. I see a replacement steel piston listed for $21 on Rock Auto. ($1 more than a phenolic) Should they swap right out? And if so, would it be a good idea to get these while I'm doing all this?

- Fourth question: I see two sets of wheel bearings listed on AutoHole's site. Is it a bad idea to go for the cheaper ones?

- Fifth question: Should I modify/disable anything else on the ABS system, with the exciter rings gone?

- Sixth question: Am I forgetting anything here? Four rotors, two pad sets, four front wheel bearings, front seals, caliper rebuild kits, the cube-shaped tool for compressing rear calipers, and possibly two steel replacement pistons. I have to add it all up and determine what we can order on what week, depending on when and what she gets paid. Any other must-do replacements while I'm going this far? I'm guessing I'll probably do this two at a time.. fronts first, then rears.

Brake work makes me nervous. I don't like risking a screw-up on a system that can get me killed. Never worked with an ABS car before, on top of that. Even worse, this fibromyalgia flare-up has lasted a couple months now and my mental state is in the toilet. I don't have much confidence that I can do this right now, given my condition.. but I'm forced to do it by limited finances. Sorry for the long post, but I want to make sure all my bases are covered before I attempt this. Thanks for reading.

EDIT: One more question: The right rear rotor is being eaten up by a disintegrated pad. Two bolt trenches are being dug into the rotor. It's really worrying me. Would it be a bad idea to take that caliper off and slap on the used right rear pads from my other Mark VII temporarily, to try to avoid further damage to the rotor until I can get both rears done right?

89 LSC brake woes (long post)

Reply #1 – August 11, 2006, 11:00:51 PM

Nevermind, I guess.. the guys over at Lincolns Online help me put this together. This is what I came up with over there: (copied from my last post over there)

- About $64 total for pads, plus shipping on the rears. Ceramic pads up front, premium non-metallics out back.
- $40-44 for wheel bearings, all four. (inner/outer, both sides)
- Found some Raybestos rotors that list for ABS but are only $25 each, so I'm guessing they probably have the ring land but not the ring. (will email Rock Auto to check) So $50 + shipping for the fronts.
- Rear rotors: Will either resurface the rears from the parts car, or buy the $54/ea. Wagners. $108 + shipping if bought, unknown cost if a friend cleans up the parts car ones.
- Front seals: (not sure on this part, just heard I needed 'em.. is this a seal at the back of the front rotors?) $14 + shipping total.
- Stupid cube wheel tool: About $10 at AutoHole.
- Fresh bearing grease and brake fluid: Not sure of current cost.

So around $300 total, not including shipping and the cost of fresh grease and fresh brake fluid to flush the entire system. (might as well while I'm at it)

Well thanks for reading, anyway. Hopefully I can get this done within the next month or so. We'll probably order the stuff to do one set, and then the other on her next pay check.

89 LSC brake woes (long post)

Reply #2 – August 11, 2006, 11:16:03 PM

To answer your first (?) I bought the cheapies from rockauto for my 5-lug conversion. While I haven't done any serious driving yet, they seem to be ok, I'm not worried about them. And they came with an exciter ring.

#2 - Ceramic Fronts and Semi-Metallic rears is actually pretty common. Especially for TC drivers. :)

#3 - I'll let Chuck answer that one. But I was going to try it at one point in time for my 73mm upgrade.

#4 - Are you sure yours are bad? Spray them with some brake cleaner and they should spin like new.... assuming they aren't damaged. Repack w/ grease and your good to go. Honestly, I've gotten the cheap ones and never had a problem with them.

#5 - I just cut the (sensor) lines and removed the sensors on my TC. I'll get around to removing the comp later. And I pulled that annoying ABS bulb out!

#6 - Brake Fluild/Cleaner, HD Grease, maybe even replace your caliper pins if they are rusty?

I have done that before. No real adverse effects, especially since it's in the rear. If it was in the front it might pull to one side when you brake, but it's better to have that than no brakes at all.

EDIT: Dadgummit! :D

89 LSC brake woes (long post)

Reply #3 – August 11, 2006, 11:27:47 PM

It's not that the wheel bearings are bad.. it's that I figure I might as well replace them while I'm doing all this. Also, I'm sure that months of shuddering front brakes haven't been good for the wheel bearings. Might as well do 'em and be done with it.

As an aside, I just looked this site up again and figured I'd share it. It's about the myth of brakes "warping": http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

EDIT: I'm considering bleeding the brakes twice. First before I do the brake work, to get most of the out. (remember, ABS system.. less likely to flush everything out.. can probably get 90% of it if I'm thorough) Then do the brakes, then do a second bleeding. Brake fluid isn't exactly expensive.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakefluid_1a.shtml