Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger July 05, 2006, 11:06:57 AM QuoteRenault, Nissan OK GM talksJul 05, 2006Detroit News The boards of directors of Nissan Motor Co. of puppiesan and France's Renault SA on Monday approved holding "exploratory discussions" with General Motors Corp. on forming a global alliance, putting pressure on GM's board to respond to the proposal. Friday, GM's largest single shareholder, Kirk Kerkorian, dropped a bombshell when he urged GM's board to form a committee to consider joining the Nissan-Renault alliance to cut costs and boost GM's share price. The proposal, which GM said Friday it would consider, could drastically reshape GM and the global auto industry. Nissan and Renault, both led by CEO Carlos Ghosn, issued similar statements Monday in support of talks with GM. GM's board of directors has a regularly scheduled telephone meeting Friday, said a GM official who asked not to be named. Wall Street buttstuffysts Monday said they are skeptical of how the alliance would benefit GM. They are also unconvinced it would be formed. Some said it appears to be an effort by Kerkorian, who has lost money on his $1.7-billion investment in a 9.9% stake in GM, to put Ghosn in charge of the automaker, replacing CEO Rick Wagoner. "We think Tracinda's idea to push Renault-Nissan and GM together does not have much fundamental strength but instead is a ploy to get Renault's CEO at least involved in GM management," Bank of America buttstuffyst Ron Tadross said in a note to clients Monday. "In this regard, we think it is fair to reiterate our view that GM management has not done a good job, and GM and its shareholders would probably be well served by this proposed management infusion." Carrie Bloom, a spokeswoman for Kerkorian's investment company, Tracinda Corp., did not return telephone calls Monday seeking comment. GM's stock price, which rallied $2.35 or 8.6% Friday, retreated partly on Monday. GM shares fell 38 cents, or 1.3%, to $29.41. GM's history of corporate alliances has not been good, several buttstuffysts said. GM paid Italy's Fiat SpA $2 billion last year to end a troubled relationship. But difficult alliances are hardly unique to GM. DaimlerChrysler AG Chairman Dieter Zetsche knows firsthand the challenges of combining large companies of different cultures. Eight years after what was then called a merger of equals between the former Chrysler Corp. and Germany's Daimler-Benz AG, the benefits of collaboration and shared costs are only beginning to pay off. Just how difficult is it to bring major automakers together? "Very," Zetsche said last weekend, talking with journalists after Chrysler Group announced it would build the Dodge Challenger muscle car. The DaimlerChrysler merger took years to sort out with major changes in the executive ranks, job cuts across all levels and new directions for product lines. If it does go through, it could not be done simply as a way to get bigger, Zetsche said. A larger company can provide economies of scale to reduce costs and more leverage to get better deals from parts suppliers. But the advantages level off when a company reaches a certain size, Zetsche said. The merger works only if it provides new business opportunities, he said. "Bigger doesn't help at some point," Zetsche said. Ghosn earned a strong reputation for engineering a turnaround at Nissan after it and Renault acquired minority stakes in each other. But GM's problems are different from those Nissan faced, UBS buttstuffyst Rob Hinchliffe said in a report. GM is not hindered, for instance, by an entrenched network of suppliers partly owned by the automaker. And while Nissan and Renault complemented each other with little geographical overlap -- Nissan strong in puppiesan and North America and Renault in Europe -- GM competes around the world, Hinchliffe said. "This creates additional complexity as the new alliances would be competing against each other," he said. "GM already has too many brands. Adding Nissan into the mix will only create more complexity." Goldman Sachs buttstuffyst Robert Barry said in a report that the logic of an alliance is unclear, and he's skeptical that it could address GM's key problems: retiree benefit costs, a reputation for poor product quality and falling U.S. market share. "The fate of Wagoner under the alliance would be in question. Most likely, Ghosn would take the lead, similar to the Nissan alliance," Barry said. "Moreover, the alliance benefits seem scarce." ...interesting Quote Selected
Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger Reply #1 – July 05, 2006, 12:07:27 PM American Made Skyline in our future..... Quote Selected
Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger Reply #2 – July 05, 2006, 01:17:49 PM hell they own at least half of isuzu, toyota, shiznit and a lot more i knew when i was a chevy guy. Quote Selected
Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger Reply #3 – July 05, 2006, 06:30:23 PM This would not be GM "Owning" Renault/Nissan. GM is not financially strong enough to even consider buying out Renault/Nissan, especially since Ghosn turned that sinking ship around.I fail to see any benefit in a Renault/Nissan/GM alliance except GM acquiring Ghosn. That man is a genius that could probably turn any company around. GM, whos market share keeps sinking because they simply can't figure out what the American customer wants (Ford is no better) needs Ghosn. Now.Simply put: GM needs product. Ghosn would be the one to make sure they get it. Quote Selected
Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger Reply #4 – July 05, 2006, 06:51:57 PM Quote from: cougar86_89hell they own at least half of isuzu, toyota, shiznit and a lot more i knew when i was a chevy guy.GM and Toyota are opponents...or WAS last i heard...:flame: Quote Selected
Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger Reply #5 – July 05, 2006, 09:04:31 PM Yeah, GM doesn't own Toyota. GM and Toyota are in cahoots on a few cars (80's Nova, present day Vibe) but they're independent companies. In fact, if things keep going like they are (GM going into the toilet), Toyota will probably end up owning GM :hick: Quote Selected
Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger Reply #6 – July 05, 2006, 09:18:31 PM Then..maybe the quality of their vehicles will improve...? Quote Selected
Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger Reply #7 – July 05, 2006, 11:29:01 PM I really don't think there's much of a quality gap now. Yes, GM and Ford have some much-publicized recalls and problems, but the imports also have problems. They're just not as well publicized because the press likes to kick GM and Ford while they're down.The problem isn't quality, it's desirability. GM and Ford simply do not make desirable vehicles (with few exceptions, notably the Mustang and Vette). They have both let their mainstream carlines stagnate while they put all their eggs into the light truck/SUV market. Meanwhile their competitors have been constantly refining and improving their mainstream cars while at the same time developing very good trucks. Now the mainstream cars from GM and Ford are a decade behind the curve, and their reputations have suffered seriously because of it. A Taurus can last 200k miles with no major issues, but the motoring press (and public) will consider the car "junk" because it is so inferior to its competitors. Then, when something does break, they will be especially hard on it.Meanwhile, some of the more sophisticated and expensive imports (the Germans and, from personal experience, the Swedes) have been having some very serious quality issues for the past decade. Electrical problems abound in these cars, interior quality is sub-par, and build quality is generally very poor. And when things break, they are extremely expensive to repair. Yet the brand names are still considered to be high quality and people pay a premium for them. The press is almost silent about thier problems.Case in point: My own Swedish shiznitbox. This has been the most unreliable car I have ever owned, and I have owned mid 80's Hyundais. There is one particular problem that is very pr0nounced in 99-02 models: The electronic throttle control module (these cars have drive by wire) is extremely pr0ne to failure. According to leaked Volvo dospoogeents they have a 95% failure rate before 80k miles. When they fail the symptoms range from an "ETM" light in the dash to the car stalling or losing power suddenly. There have been numerous reported accidents caused by this, and I believe there may even have been a few deaths (imagine shutting your car off at 75MPH while being tailgated by a tractor trailer).At first Volvo refused to admit there was a problem, but after a (silent) stink was kicked up they relented and offered reprogramming and throttle cleaning. Didn't work. They then offered an extended warranty (they'll replace the ETM for 10 years, 200k miles). Fine, but they still haven't solved the problem, and there are reports of the replacement ETM failing at under 10k miles.Oh, and it was a $1200-$1500 repair if your ETM failed, and until recently, Volvo dealerships were instructed to not mention any warranty unless the customer mentions it first. Pressure from Volvo owners has convinced Volvo to send letters to all Volvo owners, but you can bet your ass they only did this to try to keep the problem silent.And yet, chances are that none of you have ever heard of this problem. Here is a very serious and potentialy dangerous problem plaguing virtually all Volvo models made between 1999 and 2002, but the press has mentioned nothing about it (I only found out about it on Volvo message boards - check out vexedvolvo.org). Had this been a Ford or GM problem (yes, I know Ford owns Volvo but it's still considered an "import" nameplate) it would've been front page news and Ford or GM would haver been raked over the coals.Quality is not the big problem at GM and Ford. Lack of product is probably the biggest problem, but reputation is another biggie. Quote Selected
Possiblities... GM-Nissan Merger Reply #8 – July 06, 2006, 01:58:53 PM More news...http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060706/AUTO01/607060379Quote"This creates additional complexity as the new alliances would be competing against each other," he said. "GM already has too many brands. Adding Nissan into the mix will only create more complexity."Personally, I agree with that statement. If I were given the chance to finance any car but it had to be a GM product, the only thing that stands out is the Cadillac CTS-V. And that's MAYBE. Quote Selected