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Topic: Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0 (Read 3733 times) previous topic - next topic

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Hey everyone!

If this is in the wrong section, mods, please move it to the appropriate section.

For a few months now, I've been having problems with my '86 Cougar GS 5.0 V8.  This car has now close to 19,000 original miles as we bought it from a dealership, and the story is the car was driven very lightly by an elderly lady.  Her and her husband bought it new in '86.  I had to replace the spark plugs and eventually the plug wires as they were both original.

I changed the plugs months ago but kept the original plug wires on it.  It eventually started jerking.  The jerking only happens when I give it gas.  If I let off the gas, it rolls without jerking.  I noticed I don't feel the jerking nearly as much when it's put in D1.  Eventually, I changed the plug wires a month ago.  I couldn't do it earlier because I take care of my elderly Mom, and she wasn't doing well for a while, even ending up in the hospital a couple of times. 

I still have the jerking, but now, it idles very roughly.  I can really feel this while stopped at a light.  It will rumble and bumble for lack of a better way to describe it.  It shakes quite a bit.  It doesn't have the power it once did as I can't even force it into passing gear.  It also has a ping I can hear more than I used to.  I thought maybe one of the wires wasn't fully on, so I checked the wires.  Everything looks good.  If I have the vent/air on and I start it up cold or after having it parked for a little while, sometimes, it will shut off.  The firing order is right.  I checked to make sure nothing was out of place under the hood, and everything looks ok.  The distributor cap and rotor are the originals.  The Cougar, oddly enough, came with a Honda battery and I haven't changed it yet.

It's driving me batty trying to figure this out.  Does anyone have any ideas or could anyone help me pinpoint what's wrong?  I spoke to a mechanic that has helped me out for years, but is busy a lot of the time.  He took a drive in it and he told me it could be the distributor cap or rotor.  He also thought it could be the fuel filter or even one or more of the injectors. 

Any help would seriously be appreciated!  I miss the Cat not purring like she should!  :-(

Thanks in advance,
Tommy

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #1
Your ignition is more than likely fine. I can definitely say you didn't need to do plugs and wires with only 19k on it! ;)  Wires MAYBE as rubber does corrode but some leakage isn't going to cause these symptoms.

Do a fuel filter as that's easy enough. Check fuel pressure. Take the vac line off the factory pressure regulator, plug that vac line so you don't have a vac leak while testing. Should be 40 psi. Just let it idle for this.

Check codes. You can do this with a paperclip and your check engine light. http://www.troublecodes.net/ford/ Get a clipboard and pencil, watch closely and make tally marks. This will help find a bad sensor/electrical component if the ECU is detecting it. Do this before you go taking things apart or having a repair shop start taking things apart. You don't want to just throw parts and money at it. Fortunately a lot of them are cheap if you shop around.

Certainly could have some bad fuel that plugged things up with that low of mileage. But you never know.
Also....talking about passing gear...read up on the TV / Kickdown cable adjustment and bushing. This is a stupid little plastic thing that can easily kill your transmission!!! Very easy to make right and monitor, but they have a tendency to disconnect. Pay close attention to the skinny pedal. It should have a slushy/slow feeling to it. It should not be super-easy to push down, as in a stick-shift car. If it is, your kickdown cable has fallen off the throttle arm and you need to shut the car down immediately and re-attach it. Or put the selector in "1" and limp the car home in 1st gear then fix it.
1987 20th Anniversary Cougar, 302 "5.0" GT-40 heads (F3ZE '93 Cobra) and TMoss Ported H.O. intake, H.O. camshaft
2.5" Duals, no cats, Flowmaster 40s, Richmond 3.73s w/ Trac-Lok, maxed out Baumann shift kit, 3000 RPM Dirty Dog non-lock TC
Aside from the Mustang crinkle headers, still looks like it's only 150 HP...
1988 Black XR7 Trick Flow top end, Tremec 3550
1988 Black XR7 Procharger P600B intercooled, Edelbrock Performer non-RPM heads, GT40 intake AOD, 13 PSI @5000 RPM. 93 octane

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #2
So prior to you installing the plugs it was fine? Did anything weird happen when you installed the plugs? Like maybe you dropped one on the ground, picked it up, and popped it in?  I had that happen years back when and the plug was damaged after it fell.

Double check the firing order again, don't forget you need non-HO firing order...not the 5.0 mustang firing order.. pull plugs and check the gap on them.  Take a video with your phone and post the running condition if you can.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #3
Quote from: ZondaC12;451896
Your ignition is more than likely fine. I can definitely say you didn't need to do plugs and wires with only 19k on it! ;)  Wires MAYBE as rubber does corrode but some leakage isn't going to cause these symptoms.

Do a fuel filter as that's easy enough. Check fuel pressure. Take the vac line off the factory pressure regulator, plug that vac line so you don't have a vac leak while testing. Should be 40 psi. Just let it idle for this.

Check codes. You can do this with a paperclip and your check engine light. http://www.troublecodes.net/ford/ Get a clipboard and pencil, watch closely and make tally marks. This will help find a bad sensor/electrical component if the ECU is detecting it. Do this before you go taking things apart or having a repair shop start taking things apart. You don't want to just throw parts and money at it. Fortunately a lot of them are cheap if you shop around.

Certainly could have some bad fuel that plugged things up with that low of mileage. But you never know.
Also....talking about passing gear...read up on the TV / Kickdown cable adjustment and bushing. This is a stupid little plastic thing that can easily kill your transmission!!! Very easy to make right and monitor, but they have a tendency to disconnect. Pay close attention to the skinny pedal. It should have a slushy/slow feeling to it. It should not be super-easy to push down, as in a stick-shift car. If it is, your kickdown cable has fallen off the throttle arm and you need to shut the car down immediately and re-attach it. Or put the selector in "1" and limp the car home in 1st gear then fix it.

The mechanic who looked at it said he'd change the fuel filter for me, but he's been really busy as of late.  I've changed a fuel filter before, but because I take care of my Mom, who isn't in good health, I don't have the time to devote to replacing parts.  Where is the factory pressure regulator?  How do I check codes?

The pedal does have a slushy, slow feeling to it, so I believe that's ok.

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #4
Quote from: Bob;451897
So prior to you installing the plugs it was fine? Did anything weird happen when you installed the plugs? Like maybe you dropped one on the ground, picked it up, and popped it in?  I had that happen years back when and the plug was damaged after it fell.

Double check the firing order again, don't forget you need non-HO firing order...not the 5.0 mustang firing order.. pull plugs and check the gap on them.  Take a video with your phone and post the running condition if you can.

Nothing weird happened while installing the plugs and I didn't drop any of them. 

To replace the wires, I took old wire off, put new one on, in that order, so I know the firing order isn't messed up.  I used NAPA wires as a replacement since Motorcraft wires couldn't be found.  I gapped them correctly.

I'll try to get a video of how it's running, but I can promise you one thing... it's idling and running very rough.  I'm about at my wits end, but I love the Cougar!

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #5
Forget miles, after 30 years almost anything can be possible...

Well lesseee rough running is usually related to ignition issues but not always by any chance... Failed rotor generally means your are walking but sometimes dist caps burn a track between contacts inside(usually visible)...

If fuel pressure diaphragm is leaking there will be gas in it's vacuum port, age can play a factor here... Also be sure the MAP sensor is receiving full manifold vacuum, check for bad/cracked lines...

A plugged fuel filter that restricts flow generally idles fine, just won't have much power... 

I'd use a IR thermometer to check temp at each exhaust port on manifolds, likely that will point to a cylinder or two that has issues... Old/bad or dirty fuel may have clogged some of the injectors...

Once had a '86 5.0 that had approx three liters of orange soda in the tank, the sugar gummed the injectors till it'd barely run... Had to clean them with water as no petroleum product would touch it...

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #6
Here's a video of what it sounds like under the hood after it's warmed up.  I don't know if you can tell much from this, but check it out...

[video]https://youtu.be/6KA-7aQSNbA[/video]

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #7
Check the timing with the spout out.. The position of the ignition module looks off but maybe that's just how the dizzy was stabbed.

Also take the distributer bag off and separate each wire, don't let the touch other wires use wire tires as spark plug wire seperators, google

https://www.google.com/search?q=wire+ties+as+sparkplug+wire+seperators&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Might be an old wives tale but I never let mine touch each other
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #8
Quote from: Bob;451918
Check the timing with the spout out.. The position of the ignition module looks off but maybe that's just how the dizzy was stabbed.

Also take the distributer bag off and separate each wire, don't let the touch other wires use wire tires as spark plug wire seperators, google

https://www.google.com/search?q=wire+ties+as+sparkplug+wire+seperators&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Might be an old wives tale but I never let mine touch each other

How do I check the timing?  When you said the ignition module looked off, what did you mean?  I do have some car knowledge, but I've got a long ways to go.  hehe

Is there any way I could have inadvertently screwed up the timing?  The distributor cap and rotor are original to the car.  Over where the coil is (I think), the cover is on it, and I'm assuming it's rivited on there.  Do I need to take it off?

All I can say is it seems like it's getting worse, whatever it is.  When I'm stopped at a stop light, it idles so roughly it's like it makes a "pew pew pew pew" sound.  It's also got a regular tick tick tick noise under the hood.  When you give it more gas, the tick sound picks up and when you let off, it slows down.

It's very sick whatever is wrong.  :-(

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #9
There's one thing I just found out that conflicts with what I found out at the time.  I found out at the time I changed the plugs, the spark plug gap was .50.  I looked on Cool Cats and found out it's .54.  Did I set the gap wrong at .50?

Another thing I've noticed now, as I said in my last reply that it has a tick tick tick noise.  It's more like a tap, tap, tap noise that sounds like it's coming from the left side hearing it from the driver's seat.  It's constant with the motor running.  When I give it gas, the tap tap tap sound gets faster, then slows down when I let off the gas.  It had a little ping to it before, but now, it's a clearly audible tap tap tap sound. 

Any help would really be appreciated!  :-)

Tommy

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #10
Quote from: thetommyboy2k;451957
There's one thing I just found out that conflicts with what I found out at the time.  I found out at the time I changed the plugs, the spark plug gap was .50.  I looked on Cool Cats and found out it's .54.  Did I set the gap wrong at .50?

Another thing I've noticed now, as I said in my last reply that it has a tick tick tick noise.  It's more like a tap, tap, tap noise that sounds like it's coming from the left side hearing it from the driver's seat.  It's constant with the motor running.  When I give it gas, the tap tap tap sound gets faster, then slows down when I let off the gas.  It had a little ping to it before, but now, it's a clearly audible tap tap tap sound. 

Any help would really be appreciated!  :-)

Tommy
Gap better be .054 not .54... A .004 variance in gap isn't going to make any difference, I often set mine a little close to allow for gap erosion...

Get a length of hose approx 1/2" in diameter and listen in one end while moving the other, if it's external will be audible when you are near it...

Not to be cruel but it's fairly plain you don't have a clue what most engine components are or any idea how to troubleshoot, we can't be if of much help when you can't perform the tests we suggest...

Please help! Problems with '86 Cougar GS 5.0

Reply #11
X2, run codes we can't help you if you can't help yourself, and 9/10 the car knows what's wrong, its just waiting for you to ask.

Your car has a ton or hard plastic and rubber lines, they could easily cause it.

Just an FYI, most 86 and some 87 cars did not have a check engine light. I took my cluster out and there was never a bulb in it. You may need a buttstuffog volt meter or a test light and use the output pin of the test connector to get a reading. It takes 5 minutes and little preparation. Record the video of you running codes both key on engine off and key on engine running. Then count the blinks or post the video.

Sbftech also have a very good and detailed explanation with pictures videos and trouble shooting go to's and is my #1 write up from all of them I've read. My 86 just two days ago wouldn't even stay running with my foot on the gas. I was getting o2, tps and map codes. I was sure fuel pressure was off and assumed the tps code was from me using my foot to try to keep it running. I checked fuel pressure at the filter and got 70+psi with a few key cycles.

I ended up swapping the map sensor off my dad's van and she fired eight up and purred like a kitten, though with a high idle. The tps was indeed bad and I ended up replacing it as well, but to be fair the car is older then I am and has 324k miles on it.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com