5.4 Broken plugs

Topic: 5.4 Broken plugs (Read 1392 times) previous topic - next topic

5.4 Broken plugs

November 02, 2012, 06:40:03 PM

Ok we all know how these engines are the pits for broken plugs. I would like to know from others their experience with this issue. And how you guys handle customers when and if the head has to be pulled. Problem a 5.4 comes in with a miss fire code. Po 1-8 ETC. You have to change the coil pack first as i always do. Then the engine sets the same code Po 1-8 ETC. So you next step is to yank the plug. Hopefully it comes out without breaking or pulling the threads. The LISLE 65600 normally pulls the broken piece. But what if it does not?? How many of you have failed to remove the broken piece in these heads wit the tool. Then what to do if the piece does not come out??? Simply put the head has to come off. Now this design is beyond my wildest dreams of IGNORANCE by Ford but that is the way it is. So tell me your horror story's. As i have been their. And do you just address the bad cylinder or replace all the plugs??? Input appreciated. As those heads are a NIGHTMARE TO REMOVE!!!

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #1 – November 03, 2012, 08:58:10 AM

Never had one not come out, with the tools. Dont know if youve done this at all, but it seems to help. After the coil is pulled off pour either some carb cleaner or brake clean in the hole covering over the plug. Let sit for atleast 30 min. Or if you are doing them all as you pull the coils put the solution in. At the shop I work at it depends on the customer, though we suggest all at once considering in the end it will cost them the same over time or more to get them replaced. Besides that the replacement plugs are designed as 1 piece at that end.

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #2 – November 03, 2012, 09:19:11 AM

On my 4.6 it blew the whole plug out, so they were able to fix in the truck, it happen to me twice, I put the plug back in and drove home, but had to have it fixed it probable would have blew out again sooner or later. Good luck

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #3 – November 03, 2012, 11:32:14 AM

Thank you for input. We deal with this all the time and customers do not like the bills we give out for a plug change. The tool works great. Some of the other shops claim by using a 3/8 impact gun on the plugs they come right out. Fords TSB claims different. The soak and wait procedure is best in my book but wanted other input. People have come up with great ideas other than factory TSB'S Thanks for the feed back.

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #4 – November 03, 2012, 02:56:26 PM

Soaking is far too time consuming...I've NEVER had to consider pulling a head...many tool kits out there for these broken plugs don't work worth a ...the only one worth the money is the Matco # BPR65....I do 3-4 of these a month, sometimes more. Take out all the coil bolts, get the engine up to full operating temp and start pulling plugs on one side, slow and steady...an awful creaking sound as they come out is a good thing...work quickly but don't hurry when it comes to breaking the plugs loose. Replace plugs on one side, re-install coils and get the motor back up to temp then do the other side....I've tried it all...and the "soak-it" method is about worthless too.

Getting those heads good and hot is the key to success...worst case scenario only 1 or 2 MAY break with hot heads...cold motor I averaged 4-5 broken plugs. We charge 1hr per hole(on top of regular book time) to remove the broken plugs and we let them know ahead of time what may happen and potential costs. I've broken 7 out of 8 on one I did with a cold motor...the worst I've ever had on a hot motor is 2....once you get proficient with the Matco tool, removing the broken plug really only takes about 10mins. On the last one I did, the center stud of the puller(gnarly left hand thread worn out) wasn't gripping worth a and it kept pulling material out of the ground electrode sleeve that sticks in the head, I ended up using JB Qwik weld and threaded it back in, left it sit for an hour and it came out...the next day, my Matco guy warrantied it out for me, no problem.

Good luck,
Don

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #5 – November 03, 2012, 06:45:11 PM

Don that is what i was telling my Senior TECH. I always heated up engines to remove stubborn plugs in engines that were pr0ne to stripping ETC. BUT!!!! Ford states a completely cold engine. This makes no sense to me whatsoever. The epoxy trick is a very good idea. I never thought of that. So which tool do you recommend as the best??? LISLE is the one we use with very good results. The FORD techs at the dealer tell me the LISLE tool is better than the FORD ONE. At 600 Bucks the Ford tool should be FOOL PROOF. But this is why i am asking. You think like me as to your procedure. But once again FORD TELLS A DIFFERENT STORY. Thanks for sharing your experience and tricks.

OIL AND OR CARB CLEANER CANT GET PAST THE TAPER SEAL. It cant. It can only lubricate the threads. This is not a bad idea. As those plugs strip out threads as well. I had a handful of Police Cruisers pop out the plugs at times. When this happens the complete plug comes out. A coil can be installed and all is good in the world. But stuck electrodes are a BITCH plain and simple!!! Thank You

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #6 – November 03, 2012, 07:20:00 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;401897

OIL AND OR CARB CLEANER CANT GET PAST THE TAPER SEAL. It cant. It can only lubricate the threads. This is not a bad idea. As those plugs strip out threads as well. I had a handful of Police Cruisers pop out the plugs at times. When this happens the complete plug comes out. A coil can be installed and all is good in the world. But stuck electrodes are a BITCH plain and simple!!! Thank You

I did forget 1 little part of what we do, right after we pull the coil we loosen the plug just ever so slightly to break the seal. And I mean ever so slightly.

I am gonna possibly take some of these other ideas and run with them. I dont get many of these, but all ideas to do it quicker mean more money in my pocket!!

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #7 – November 03, 2012, 08:36:07 PM

We put a small amount of diesel fuel down the hole with the coil out, let stand then start with a 3/8 impact. We just rattle them. We're not actually hitting them hard enough to spin them out. After a bit of that, we start to ramp up the power. the ones that turn at that point always come out. The ones that fight will break if you keep adding power, so you step back and try again 30 minutes later. When they DO break, and sometimes they still do, we usually can extract it with the tool, when the pieces fall in, usually we can get them out by running the engine with the plug out for a few seconds.
We've found that the Champion plugs for the 3V engines don't do this.

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #8 – November 03, 2012, 10:55:56 PM

Yes the Champion plugs are one piece as they clam. Also autolite tech line claims the new plugs are one piece and do not break. I use Copper coat on the shank portion. And very careful not to get it on the electrode or horse shoe. Thanks a lot for the info. I am going to try diesel mixed with some tranny fluid. Thanks for the tips guys!!

FOE can you actually get the electrode center piece out by doing a running engine PURGE??? Curious!!!

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #9 – November 04, 2012, 10:31:02 AM

Have to say you guys are scaring the hell out of me! I have a 2008 F250 5.4, 4 wheel drive with 40 some thousand miles. It has developed what sounds like an exhaust tick when first started then quiets down but comes back slightly when warm under load. After hearing all the horror stories of plugs in these engines, my first thought was a plug coming loose getting ready to blow out, but then I read about exhaust manifold bolts rusting away, blown manifold gaskets, cracked manifolds, ect. I did climb under it to take a look, although it's hard to get a good look cause the frame hides alot of the underside of the motor, all the manifold bolts look like they're still there, although rusty, pipes from manifolds to cats are very rusty, heat shields rusting away and falling off, but no visible holes. So what's your guys guess where the ticking is coming from? By the way I did buy the Ford extended warrenty before the factory one ran out, will Ford cover any of this?

I use the the truck to pull my enclosed trailer for my T-Bird drag car which I love working on as a hobby, I CAN'T STAND WORKING ON MY DALIY DRIVERS!!! Don't know how you guys do it, my hats off to you!

Roger

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #10 – November 04, 2012, 10:34:45 AM

^ Cracked Exhaust manifold.

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #11 – November 04, 2012, 10:40:29 AM

They crack all the TIME!!!

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #12 – November 04, 2012, 02:44:50 PM

Any procedure that involves waiting 30 minutes here and there is a waste, and I'll never put an impact to a spark plug in any head...especially an aluminum head, this practice is highly frowned upon. I think the Lisle tool is the same as the Matco tool I listed the part number for previously, however, there isn't a Lisle tool guy stopping by weekly to see if you need parts of that set warrantied out...the Matco set only cost like $130 or something.

The ground electrode tube that sticks in the head will absolutely NOT come out by just running the engine...been there done that too...I've been though it all and once I stumbled upon the "get it hot" trick, I've never looked back...hopefully it saves many people as much b/s as it has me. Remember though, you can only do one side, then you have to let it run and get hot again(a good time to take your lunch break). It's not always a pleasant procedure...air temps in our shop in the summer top 120* almost daily...and laying over a 200*+ engine isn't fun.

Good luck,
Don

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #13 – November 04, 2012, 03:59:31 PM

Quote from: 83TB;401860

On my 4.6 it blew the whole plug out, so they were able to fix in the truck, it happen to me twice, I put the plug back in and drove home, but had to have it fixed it probable would have blew out again sooner or later. Good luck

They're talking about a different issue here. On the older 4.6's with PI heads the issue was that there were only a few threads holding the plug in and they would blow out, requiring a heli-coil to repair them. This is what happened with yours.

On the 3-valve 5.4's the issue is that for some strange reason Ford spec'd a two-piece spark plug. The hex portion of the plug is a separate part from the threaded portion on the head, they're kind of crimped together. This works perfectly fine until the plug has to come out. A spark plug that's been in for 100k miles can be dicey at the best of times. On these engines they're poison because they often break off, leaving the threaded portion in the head. This is the issue Tom and the others are talking about. Quality replacement spark plugs are one-piece design.

I've had good success with the Lisle tool. Never had to pull a head. Hope I never have to...

5.4 Broken plugs

Reply #14 – November 04, 2012, 10:56:50 PM

Ahh!!! Learn something everyday, interesting to know.