Brake issues continued

Topic: Brake issues continued (Read 5524 times) previous topic - next topic

Brake issues continued

Reply #15 – February 17, 2014, 11:36:15 AM

Darren, I do not feel that you did a hijack whatsoever. This was info that I needed. I now have the 93 Cobra MC with it's 1 inch bore. I feel this will go perfect with the system. I will see how this goes. I like ur suggestion on the front calipers. I will try this if I need more braking power.

Brake issues continued

Reply #16 – February 19, 2014, 09:47:13 AM

Chrome,

I think the issue you are going to run into is the stock proportioning valve was not designed around the larger brakes up front and the drums out back. Gutting it and installing the manual proportioning valve will allow you to dial some bias into the car. It will by no means be optimum until you get the rear disc brakes on the car but it should help.

Darren

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Reply #17 – February 19, 2014, 10:59:31 AM

Installed 93 Cobra MC after work yesterday. I have some bleeding to do, but even with that, it stops better than it ever did. Now to install the manual prop valve. It looks a little funny right now when I stop hard. The rear does not seem to have any braking function whatsoever.

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Reply #18 – February 20, 2014, 06:32:22 AM

Chrome lets clear this up right now!!! It makes absolutely no difference where a master cylinder comes from. That is what CAR ETC. All that is needed is the number of pistons TOTAL the system has. That governs the capacity the cylinder needs. The stroke length pedal ratio and if manual or boosted. So with that all known and the math dun properly you can design a system. Normally the cars we are working on Mustangs cougars etc have a pedal ratio of 2.8 APP. With a 6 piston system a master of proper stroke and volume would be somewhere around 15/16-1 inch. This will accomplish a pedal force ratio of app 100 LBS @ the pedal. Personally i modify the pedal ratios on my cars closer to 3-1 because i like a light pedal. Some are ok with a heavy pedal. But industry standards is 100 LBS at the pedal with a forced stop. Once again you can use a master from any car you want as long as the specks suite your setup!! Once again smaller diameter pistons stop better but travel more. Bigger diameter pistons need more pedal effort but travel less.

Bellow is a cylinder with a 15/16 piston full stroke and applies ZO6 brakes on my TYPHOON. Note all it has is a valve for the rear brake bias. Simple effective and clean. Naturally home made mounting hardware!!!

Brake issues continued

Reply #19 – February 20, 2014, 06:45:32 AM

Sometimes i have to get fancy and modify more than just the mountings. This cylinder is for a modified VETTE the booster is made in Australia and it has a unique mount and cylinder depth. So in order to reduce the piston diameter i had to use a WS6 Master from a pontiac to get a good brake feel. But doing this kind of stuff takes years of experience!!!

Once the piston is the proper depth i modified the mounting to fit the VETTES Australian built booster.

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Reply #20 – February 20, 2014, 09:45:37 AM

Tom, you can't go to a parts store and request a MC with a specific bore size or order one that way. They will ask what car it fits. Therefore, I need to know what car it came from in order to get the right MC.

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Reply #21 – February 20, 2014, 12:23:27 PM

Omg , I think I am going to vomit !!!!

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Reply #22 – February 20, 2014, 01:03:20 PM

Quote from: Chooglin;429152

Omg , I think I am going to vomit !!!!

???

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Reply #23 – February 20, 2014, 02:11:18 PM

Quote from: Chrome;429156

???

I wasn't referring to you chrome !!!

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Reply #24 – February 20, 2014, 10:03:36 PM

Quote from: Chooglin;429157

I wasn't referring to you chrome !!!

Thought you were referring to the current state of my Bird. Now I know what you were referring to. Yes, it is quite frustrating. We've lost a lot of good members because of it. At this point in time I view it like Spam.

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Reply #25 – February 21, 2014, 07:38:45 AM

There is an adjuster on the rod coming out of the booster that engages the piston on the MC. With this you can typically adjust the point at which the pedal engages the brakes. It's been talked about on here and other sites before. What Tom did was something that most people should not do without having the knowledge of what they are doing which it appears Tom has done his homework.

One other factor in choosing a MC is the diameter of the pistons as that helps determine bore volume of the calipers.

Darren

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Reply #26 – February 21, 2014, 09:46:14 AM

The pin nose adjuster is for fine tuning AGREED. But what i am trying to get across is lets say when you are converting to lets say WILWOOD components they do not supply cylinders by make and model. I have a master sheet with a ton of cylinders that show bore diameter stroke length and center to center. I have been doing this for a long time and recorded this info. You can also get this info from the brake people as i do. So as i NAUSEATE Chooglin as usual i ask him what the hell does he know about this subject. My gut feeling is NOTHING AS USUAL!!!

NOTE you are messing with brakes and that is serious. That is why one has to be careful when swapping parts around. Ford did not choose all those different cylinders by luck they designed the system around the cars weight wheel base application pedal ratio ETC ETC. Once changing components around you, need it to be dun correctly. So that is why one has to research what components one needs for the conversions. Example THE TC has a terrible brake system and we modify them all the time. We know what works and we do not deviate from that design. But everyone has a different setup. Nothing wrong with that but all i am reading seems to be brakes that are to hard or do not stop. So i chimed in with what i thought was helpful info. Is that not what this site is all about????

Wilwood only makes 3 different bore diameters on there TANDEM CYLINDERS Scroll down for all the specks and cylinder diameters of there cylinders. Or contact Engineering and talk with them.

http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderLanding.aspx

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Reply #27 – February 22, 2014, 11:40:08 PM

Tom, I do not disagree with you. I just think there is a better way. MANY people on this site have upgraded their braking systems. All I have to do is ask them what has worked for them. I wish to keep my MC and booster as Ford units. I just needed to know which ones where correct. The only difference between my upgrade and all the others is the rear has not been changed to 5 lug discs as of yet. I feel that I now have the perfect combination. All seems to be perfect other than the bias. My car now stops better than it ever thought about from the assembly line. I did not have to crack open a book, or even pick up a calculator. I just asked the people who have been there and done that. The problem with what you have posted, is the reference to and pics of what you have done on a Vette. I don't own a Vette and never will. Nor do I want to start modifying brand new parts when I can just buy some that will just bolt on. I will have to modify some brake lines and install a manual prop valve, but other than that, I would like to keep it bolt on.

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Reply #28 – February 23, 2014, 12:56:54 PM

Brakes are brakes whether a UGO or a short wheel base GTO. Makes no difference. The math is CONSTANT!!!! Thanks!!!!