my rant for the day

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my rant for the day

February 01, 2012, 03:28:38 PM

So first off I admit that I am not all that familiar with car dealership service centers. My cars have always been older and when I have had to take them in to get something checked out I usually go to a reputable independent shop. So maybe I am just behind the times.

But today I took in our ’09 Taurus because the transmission is making a kind of buzzing noise intermittently when it upshifts in the higher gears. It’s got 45,000 miles on it so it’s still covered by the powertrain warranty. So I assume I have nothing to lose by getting it looked at. After they check it out they tell me that there is a TSB for this. They tell me the problem is that the transmission cooler lines are vibrating against the body of the car and the fix is to put in new lines that are supposedly designed better or something. $285. And of course since the cooler lines are not a moving part of the transmission, the powertrain warranty won’t cover it. My first thoughts are (1) this is a cosmetic issue so I might not have to fix it at all and (2) if I do decide to have something done I may as well get a comparison quote or two (or try to figure it out myself) since the warranty won’t cover it anyway. They say sure, then that will be $85 for the diagnostic work.

This is where I start to see a little red. $85 just to get my keys back? I tell them they never told me they would charge just to take a look. Plus until that very moment I was basically 100% sure that this was going to be a powertrain warranty issue. They act like I am crazy for assuming they wouldn’t charge me to check it out. They tell me a 1 hour charge for labor is a standard minimum diagnostic charge (even though I had the car in one other time a few weeks ago when it was still under the 3 month bumper-to-bumper warranty from the used car dealership and there wasn’t an up-front diagnostic charge then). Maybe I am crazy, but every single place I have ever taken a car before has looked at it, told me what they think I need to do, and THEN let me decide if I want to go ahead and get on the clock for a charge.

So I stand my ground and we argue for like 10 minutes. I hate doing that but I hate getting f***** over even more. So eventually the guy tells me he will give me my keys back but if I walk away I should go somewhere else if I ever need any work done in the future. I don’t think he believed I would take him up on that offer. I realize everybody has to make a living, and there are probably people on this board who do it at car dealerships. I have no problem with that. But if you ask me this was a shakedown. I don’t even know what diagnostics they would have needed in this case! They probably punched in my VIN, the TSB popped up, they saw it was exactly what I was describing, and that was it. So again, maybe I was in the wrong and this is just how it is now, but even if that is so I still think it’s a bunch of BS. Sorry for the long rant.

my rant for the day

Reply #1 – February 01, 2012, 03:39:03 PM

So, basically, what are you trying to say? LOL.

Actually, I don't trust most mechanics. That's just me. I've sen how to many are to have any trust in them.

my rant for the day

Reply #2 – February 01, 2012, 03:45:32 PM

I trust the mechanics fine. It's the guys working the service desk I'm not so sure about.

my rant for the day

Reply #3 – February 01, 2012, 06:53:20 PM

Well if its a well known issue, why did it take them an hour to figure it out? They aren't going to fix it unless its a problem. A rettling high pressure metal line vibrating means its moving, and will become a problem.

my rant for the day

Reply #4 – February 01, 2012, 10:53:48 PM

Yeah, I don't know, I guess it was just a combination of things that made it seem like I was getting ripped off. Since the noise was connected to the shifting of the transmission I had no doubt it was going to be covered by the powertrain warranty. So when they told me it wouldn't be that was a surprise. Plus there is the TSB part that I think could have led them to the problem before they even opened the hood. I have talked to a couple other people today who have told me they have been charged just to have their vehicles looked at, so I guess I am the one who had my head in the sand on that one (though I still think they could have told me in advance that they would charge for that). I don't know where I have been, but every shop I have taken a car to in the various places I have lived has never charged me to tell me what they think is wrong.

As far as the issue itself, it just does it for a second in the higher gear shifts, and it doesn't even do it all the time. So I believe that it could eventually work itself into a bigger issue, and so I will deal with it, but it doesn't seem like it is super urgent.

my rant for the day

Reply #5 – February 05, 2012, 04:57:49 PM

You need to find out where the line is rubbing. If left for to long it will eventually rub through and rupture. This could wind up burning your trans out; which could cost a lot more than $85.00. You might be able to correct/fix it by just bending it slightly away from the contact area.

my rant for the day

Reply #6 – February 05, 2012, 05:09:14 PM

my solution.. find the contact area and fix it yourself.. either bend it just a tad by hand, wrap it with a larger diameter rubber hose (and tape or tiptie it in place) or depending on how it's contacting the body, invest $5 in 1 or 2 of these and call it a day:

but you're in the right for being pissed.. it's a very important part of the transmission.. if those lines go and start dumping fluid, you're probably going to be forced to pay out of pocket for a new trans, because you didn't pay their stupid $285 to fix something ford eff'd up

my rant for the day

Reply #7 – February 05, 2012, 05:27:36 PM

I guess I was hoping there would be a slow leak before a rupture that would warn me it was time to get serious about doing something. But I probably shouldn't bank on that, eh? This is by far the newest (and therefore also most expensive) car I have ever owned by a long shot, so I guess it's not worth taking too much of a chance on. Plus my wife would probably murder me on the spot if we ever got stranded because of this issue.

Yeah, I need to look closer and see if I can find the area that is making contact. If I can't bend it maybe I can put something in there that would be a buffer between the cooler line and the body. The service desk guy said the noise could also be originating internally in the line as the fluid travels through the cooler line, but he said upfront that it was just a theory and I am skeptical (though I'd be the first to admit that he probably knows more than I do). But if that is the problem, then I would think it really is just a nuisance issue and not a threat to the normal operation of the transmission.

The more people I talk to, the more it looks like I was the one who was wrong to expect a free estimate for repairs (especially from a dealer). I don't know how I got so behind the times. I guess it has something to do with having a mechanic in the family (my uncle) who has shown me what to do on a lot of do-it-myself fixes over the years. But I've still visited several shops (though not dealers) and being charged for a look-see was still a new one on me. If I would have known I would have done more internet research and troubleshooting on my own in the first place. I was just so confident going in that it was going to be under the powertrain warranty. Live and learn.

my rant for the day

Reply #8 – February 05, 2012, 05:29:27 PM

Quote from: Shadow;379828

my solution.. find the contact area and fix it yourself.. either bend it just a tad by hand, wrap it with a larger diameter rubber hose (and tape or tiptie it in place) or depending on how it's contacting the body, invest $5 in 1 or 2 of these and call it a day:

but you're in the right for being pissed.. it's a very important part of the transmission.. if those lines go and start dumping fluid, you're probably going to be forced to pay out of pocket for a new trans, because you didn't pay their stupid $285 to fix something ford eff'd up

Thanks Shadow, that exactly the kind of thing I will be looking for if I can locate the area that's rubbing.

my rant for the day

Reply #9 – February 05, 2012, 06:03:08 PM

no problem.. each of my cars has about 20-30 of those things on each of my cars, to hold everything from wiring, trans lines, fuel lines, etc..

my rant for the day

Reply #10 – February 06, 2012, 01:30:40 PM

alright, i'll comment even though i shouldn't.

I'm a ford dealer tech, the fact that they charged you an hour. i don't feel bad for. you agreed to have them take a look at your vehicle. Powertrain covers internal engine and internal trans. I understand that you can be a little mad probably thinking that the issue was going to be internal to the trans.

Here's how a repair order comes to me.

09 Taurus. Cust States: buzzing coming from trans during upshifts.

So i drive the car, verify this complaint. Find probably most of the time, i don't hear the concern right off the bat. (not saying this is the cust fault by any means. its just more of the luck of being a tech.) So I check OASIS ( the program we use for TSB's/SSM's etc.) and find the trans cooler line TSB. (which i have performed and it does fix the issue) Present this to my writer, and find out obviously, its not covered under powertrain warranty.

So i've wasted my hour, driving the car, looking up tsb's which believe it or not, i don't remember or know them for every car.

The only problem i see with what happened here, is the fact that they did not tell you there would be a Diag fee if it wasn't covered under powertrain warranty. That being the writers fault.

I get a little annoyed when people think us techs are out to screw everyone, when they've never been in the field.

my rant for the day

Reply #11 – February 06, 2012, 05:17:13 PM

It's rather common knowledge, or so I thought, that you are automatically charged a diagnostic *if* the work that needs done is not covered by a warrentee. That is how ours is though. We have a bumper to bumper on our truck... it's pair for itself already. We've only paid for diagnostic once out of the 4 or 5 times it's been in for work. If the warrentee covers the repair, no charge for diagnostic.

Perhaps you should have asked PRIOR to having it looked at, if there would be a charge for it....even if you thought it was covered. I think the mistake was on your part. And no I don't think they are out to rip you off... if they didn't charge for diagnostic, the guys would be looking over cars all day nto making any money while doing it because veryone would bring their vehicle in for diagnostics and then take it to their buddy for the repairs to save some money.