beasting up a 3.8!

Topic: beasting up a 3.8! (Read 4664 times) previous topic - next topic

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #15 – February 23, 2012, 12:52:01 AM

Quote from: Shadow;381499

why doesn't anyone throw a turbo at them? it makes sense, as there's no aftermarket support for the 3.8, other than SC parts, which there are very few that will interchange (because most are blower-related and such)

I guess you haven't seen my build thread

or this:

[video=youtube;FhzDSHjjr2o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhzDSHjjr2o[/video]\

or this:

[video=youtube;w5Hhcz18JKM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Hhcz18JKM[/video]

"20psi 709rwhp 93 pump gas"

"built RPM v6 4.3L motor, stock 3.8L Ford block, stock 4.2L F150 crank, forged piston and rods, TMA v2 Twin Turbo kit"

or this:

http://www.tmaturbo.com

...and as for the n/a 3.8 being gutless, if you brought a stock SO 5.0 cat/bird and we both went to the track I guarantee you I would take it with my 3.8 as it sits right now. Granted an SO wasn't anything special, but its still a 5.0L v8, and I would still be faster

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #16 – February 23, 2012, 01:00:44 AM

ok.. so 1 out of 500 people trying to beef a 3.8 throws a turbo at it.. lol and steve, i have seen your thread.. i believe your problem is cash-flow related? you could have probably boosted yours by now (low psi), using junkyard parts, a welder and some fab skills for under $400.. hell, my buddies honda only cost $250 to boost, with no freebies from me.. well.. ok, maybe 1/2lb of welding wire, but that's it lol :p

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #17 – February 23, 2012, 01:14:31 AM

Quote from: Shadow;381508

ok.. so 1 out of 500 people trying to beef a 3.8 throws a turbo at it.. lol and steve, i have seen your thread.. i believe your problem is cash-flow related? you could have probably boosted yours by now (low psi), using junkyard parts, a welder and some fab skills for under $400.. hell, my buddies honda only cost $250 to boost, with no freebies from me.. well.. ok, maybe 1/2lb of welding wire, but that's it lol :p

Correct, and I almost did it this summer, I was planning to do a 6 PSI set up modding a JY TC turbo but the turbo sold before two days before I got a chance to buy it so that fell through. Right now my car is fast enough to keep me entertained for a while anyway so I'm trying to fix some drivetrain/suspension related issues. Besides in order to run boost I would have to do the aforementioned MAF swap in addition in order to get all that to work so I'm chillin on it for a bit.

My priorities right now are to get a locking rear end cause I'm sick of burning up that tire all the time and to get my brakes fixed and front end tightened down. After that I'm going to do the T-5 swap because it has to be done before the split port heads/intake go on because the TB's are not compatible with AOD kickdown cables since the transmissions were all electric either AODE or 4R70W at the time and didn't use them. Then it's split port swap to really open up the hp and then MAF to really let it breathe, and THEN low boost turbo setup.

Come a couple years from now when I can afford to do it right I will be building a 4.2 in an SC block and fabricating (most likely not by me) a sequential dual turbo setup for high boost. My goal is to make >450rwhp, which is really not that hard to reach. I have a friend who is an SC fanatic but really just loves to boost 3.8's by any method and is a big fan of turbo-ing and has seen up to 400hp/450tq on single turbo systems.

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #18 – February 23, 2012, 02:20:54 AM

With no money into my 5.0 s.o. crown vic wagon, I would probably "hang" with your v-6 1/4 mile, cream it top speed, and if I wanted to drop $1k, it would be way faster then $1k in a 3.8. Even with the 800lbs or so over a reasonably optioned 87-88 bird or cat, it still runs the same speed on the hill we test our cars at, as my fastest 86-87 v-8 car. And I have had 7 of them tested there. The only difference is a lot more weight, factory 2" duals all the way back, and the "hd package", esentially the same as a towing package, giving it 3:27 or so locking axle.

You just can't cry budget and 3.8 in the same sentance. Going to an sc block and a turbo would be the way to go, if you have fab skills. Probably the cheapest and easiest setup I could come up with. But that needs a new computer, injectorss, fuel pump, intake, exhaust, chip or stand alone computer...

For less then $500 at junkyard prices, you could get an explorer motor, couple of supporting mods and be almost as fast as your 3.8. If you just want to do it to be different, then go ahead. If you want to go fast, cheap, I know what I would do, and you end up with the same, or better gas mileage to boot.

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #19 – February 23, 2012, 03:05:08 AM

Quote from: Shadow;381492

i'm going to ask the obvious.. why bother? the 3.8 in NA form has no balls, even with a little tinkering.. the only savior the 3.8 has is the fancy little blower that sits atop the SC 3.8's.. which are a better built block and bottom end to begin with

This coming from the clown who put a 5.0 in an S10....but hates Chevy.
You ok son? Too many paint fumes or something? lol....

Just some people have certain tastes...I don't care for the roofline of Cougars, especially the '87-'88....but I don't thread-shiznit in every discussion and state my thoughts every other post. :)

Hey..my wife has an '02 S-10...know what I'd love to to do it?
Put a turbo ecotec 2.2 in it from a Cavi.
It's a fun little truck now, could use some balls, but *if* it would ever be a V8...nahh. It'll stay a 4 banger.

The only 4 cylinder I'm going to convert to 5.0 will be the '90 Stang.

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #20 – February 23, 2012, 11:43:34 AM

Quote from: Haystack;381520

With no money into my 5.0 s.o. crown vic wagon, I would probably "hang" with your v-6 1/4 mile, cream it top speed, and if I wanted to drop $1k, it would be way faster then $1k in a 3.8. Even with the 800lbs or so over a reasonably optioned 87-88 bird or cat, it still runs the same speed on the hill we test our cars at, as my fastest 86-87 v-8 car. And I have had 7 of them tested there. The only difference is a lot more weight, factory 2" duals all the way back, and the "hd package", esentially the same as a towing package, giving it 3:27 or so locking axle.

You just can't cry budget and 3.8 in the same sentance. Going to an sc block and a turbo would be the way to go, if you have fab skills. Probably the cheapest and easiest setup I could come up with. But that needs a new computer, injectorss, fuel pump, intake, exhaust, chip or stand alone computer...

For less then $500 at junkyard prices, you could get an explorer motor, couple of supporting mods and be almost as fast as your 3.8. If you just want to do it to be different, then go ahead. If you want to go fast, cheap, I know what I would do, and you end up with the same, or better gas mileage to boot.

Well first off, who cares about top speed. When is any of us ever going to have a chance to (legally) max out our top speed seriously. That has never been a factor in my build plan.

Secondly I don't know why everyone thinks its so cheap to do a v8 swap. I don't know what other JY's want for motors but back in the old days when I was actually wanting to do an HO swap the $400 that the local JY wanted for an engine really deterred me. And that was the cheapest I could find around here. Then you've gotta swap the harness, ECU, and fuel pump to handle it on top if that so already your easily already at $500-600. Then you've gotta do the K-member and mounts, front springs, Headers/manifolds if your engine didn't come with them, which the ones around here do not. So now you're over $800. Then you'll probably want to do new exhaust, +$200, a CAI +$50-$150, roller rockers, +$200and lets not forget the little shiznit like filters and fluids.

So easily your looking at $1000+ to do a v8 swap. At this point you've gained about 80hp, 100 to be generous, that's 10 hp per $100. Throw a low boost turbo system on your 3.8, fab it up yourself and spend about $500 gain the same or more hp and just as much tq and thats 20hp per $100. Sure you might blow your engine up in 6 mo's but hey that's your excuse to rebuild it properly lol. If you're starting out with a v8 its great and you can really gain a ton of hp per $ but doing the swap contains way too much startup cost and to me just isn't worth it. I'm not saying I've got anything against 5.0's, I just don't believe in the swap. But if your the kind of person who enjoys that sort of thing then hey by all means go for it. My car throws me back in the seat a little, not a lot, but enough for now. I enjoy my 3.8 and I've driven v8's and I have just as much fun either way.

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #21 – February 23, 2012, 01:56:57 PM

I could get a harness for $50, a rebuilt engine for $800, set of heads for $100 with gaskets, fuel pump and injectors for about $100. Sell the old engine for $100 and I could have a new engine running in a car that has more power, gets better mileage, and has far more potential then a 3.8 with 1k into it, unless you went with turbo's and junkyard parts.

For $1k, i'd buy a 5.0 mustang, swap everything over, junk the car for $300, sell a bunch of interior stuff and body panels for another $100-200, and righ there I swaped a v-8 in for $500. Then I would have $500 to spend on performance parts, that I could get anywhere, not just one or two websites, or swapping an engine anyways.

I have had two v6 cars. Loved them to death, got decent gas mileage, didn't seem bad to drive around town. Excelent grocery getter/commuter car. Then my buddy bought a 87 xr7 cougar, and everything about his car was better. Better gas mileage, better power, much easier to fix. Hell, even parts are cheaper for a 5.0 . Really not trying to be mean here. But if your trying to be fast, you have the wrong engine. Like I saidd, my crown vic wagon would probably cream your car, in everything except maybe city gas mileage.

Out of everyone on here who has hot rodded a 3.8, everyone has swaped to a new motor or the sc block.the cost of that right there is as much or more then a 302, unless you get a really good deal. Even then, iy would still be hard to get near the hp per $ of a 302. A turbo kit would actually be ceaper for a 302 then a 3.8, because they make them and you can buy them. Even if you could get a 3.8 to the same power level as a 302 for the same cost, the 302 will not have to rev as high, the parts would be much easier to get, and the 302 would last longer.

Like I said, not trying to be mean at all. If you want to fix up a 3.8 go for it, but you either going to have so much money into it its not worth it, spend a lot more time and effort, or give up. Having one of the best, easiest to work on engines in the world with an endless supply of aftermarket parts that just bolts in, is a blessing. Not a curse.

And I sometimes drive further to fly my rc airplane then I would have to, to run my car on the salt flats. You need no special permit, don't have to pay anything. Just wait till the ground dries up enough to drive on it, and go as fast as you feel like. My point was, I didn't buy my crown vic to go fast. It wasn't ment to go fast. It was cheap and had 4 doors, and it is still faster then a 3.8. With the money you would throw into a 3.8, I would asume I could keep my 302 station wagon as fast or faster as well.

A 3.8 would make a good pizza delivery car. Much better then the 302 I had, but I doubt you come up with more then $2 a day better in gas. Most people waste that idling in the drivethrough. Plus you would lose that freeway, so it kind of evens out.

Once again, I wish you the best of luck, i'd like to see a 3.8 swapped in. But if budget a fabrication is an issue, I would rather you kept your car running good as is, then got rid of it when funds ran out.

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #22 – February 23, 2012, 05:23:05 PM

Look the fact of the matter is that a 3.8 will never have the potential to be as fast as a 5.0. Whether per $ are simply at all. I'm very aware of that. Anyone who's got enough sense to know that an electric supercharger won't add 5hp knows that. It's as simple as the oldest rule in engine building - there is no replacement for displacement. But building a 3.8 isn't about having the fastest car or the cheapest build. It's just like Jrad said and like you mentioned yourself: It's to be different. If I really wanted to be practical yes I would ditch my v6 and say the hell with a 5.0 and drop a 5.8 in.

I know you're not trying to be mean. And I'm not trying to start an argument by sitting here saying the the 3.8 is an awesome platform that can keep up with the 5.0's. All I'm trying to say is that the 3.8 is not necessarily as big of a worthless heap as everyone thinks it is. And I'm trying to convince the OP that if he want's to build his 3.8 then by all means go ahead. If he want's to go 5.0 or 5.8 or even Chevy I don't care. I'm not going to bash him. But if he want's to stick with the 3.8 then I (and I'm sure jrad as well) will attempt to assist him with any information that he may find handy. And if not then there's 150 other members on here who would be happy to help him build a V8.

For me it's never been about budget or mpg's at all. If my build was based solely on budget or income then I would have given the car to the JY 3 years ago when the engine melted down and bought a 4 banger stang. In fact if the engine hadn't have gone out and I had been able to drive the car for another couple of months, I would be buying GT40 parts and explorer intakes with the rest of you. It was out of necessity that I ended up putting a freshly rebuilt V6 in there because I didn't have time to gather all the I would need for a swap. Now I'll never get back the money I spent on it so I'm going to make the best of it.

My build is about fun. And to me, making a V6 that keeps up with the big boys is fun as hell. Sure it will take longer to get there than it would with a V8 under the hood but I don't care.

I've put my 2c in and I hope the OP can make a decision that makes him happy. I'm going to quit cluttering up his thread now. :)

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #23 – February 24, 2012, 03:48:54 AM

hey every one been gone for a while started school and all. didn't even know this thread was still up but i just wanted to say i thank everyone for the help you guys posted but im just guna leave the bird alone for now maybe just a paint job and some rims to make it look good but performance wise i know its not the greatest platform and it would be quite difficult to build up and dont really have the time or money anymore with school so id rather leave it till the motor blows on me and i'll do a proper build.

thanks again, Brian

oh and on a side note that v6 mustang running a 10.6 was pretty crazy haha way cool

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #24 – February 24, 2012, 08:15:23 AM

TL;DR.....
FWIW there is a member on here with a 3.8 that runs rings around every NA V8 on here....it's anMN-12 to boot...

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #25 – February 24, 2012, 08:15:41 AM

TL;DR.....
FWIW there is a member on here with a 3.8 that runs rings around every NA V8 on here....it's anMN-12 to boot...

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #26 – February 28, 2012, 10:13:07 AM

I pulled all the off-topic nonsense out of this thread.

The thread was about modding a 3.8...not old Broncos, Saabs, Chevy motors, or BMX bikes, etc.

beasting up a 3.8!

Reply #27 – February 28, 2012, 06:03:54 PM

ah nice work chuck. I guess now I can remove that giant warning edit in my previous post;)