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Topic: Big questions about transmissions need big help please (Read 1591 times) previous topic - next topic

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

So, my 96 tbird is getting old (215000) the suspension is going bad the engine is decent and the Trans needs a rebuild. So I got my 83 and its C5 is kind of py and I’d really like to have a floor shifter.... SO! I plan to get a new car soon here and trade in the 96 third but all I can get is about $500-$600 for it so my thought is why waste a third when I could use it to make my other car better

First will the 4R70w from my 96 3.8 bolt to the 83 3.8?
Second: what would have to do for the transmission computer?
Third what other parts should I nab from the 96 for the 83?

BTW my 83 tbird has a rebuilt engine and moded engine, cowl induction hood, rebuilt and lowered suspension and custom seats and so on.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #1 –
Quote from: xan;315263
First will the 4R70w from my 96 3.8 bolt to the 83 3.8?
Second: what would have to do for the transmission computer?
Third what other parts should I nab from the 96 for the 83?

First: yes...but:

Second: The AOD was redesigned with electronic controls in 1991, becoming the AODE.  It was mainly intended for the new Modular V8 at first, but it was also adapted  to the old AOD bell-housing for vehicles still powered by OHV engines.  While the AOD and AODE/4R70W share some basic components like oil pans,  gear sets (AODs and AODE can be retrofit with 4R70W gear sets), most of  the internals are not interchangeable. The transmissions are not  interchangeable either, as the AOD only uses a throttle valve cable for  operation. The AODE and 4R70W are controlled by the Powertrain Control  Module (PCM) also sometimes referred to as the Electronic Engine Control  (EEC).

But, all hope is not lost, check out Baumann Engineering.

Third: the '96 is a completely different platform than our Foxes, so very little, if anything will interchange.

Good luck!
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #2 –
Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;315269
First: yes...but:

Second: The AOD was redesigned with electronic controls in 1991, becoming the AODE.  It was mainly intended for the new Modular V8 at first, but it was also adapted  to the old AOD bell-housing for vehicles still powered by OHV engines.  While the AOD and AODE/4R70W share some basic components like oil pans,  gear sets (AODs and AODE can be retrofit with 4R70W gear sets), most of  the internals are not interchangeable. The transmissions are not  interchangeable either, as the AOD only uses a throttle valve cable for  operation. The AODE and 4R70W are controlled by the Powertrain Control  Module (PCM) also sometimes referred to as the Electronic Engine Control  (EEC).

But, all hope is not lost, check out Baumann Engineering.

Third: the '96 is a completely different platform than our Foxes, so very little, if anything will interchange.

Good luck!




I figured i'd have to use A stand alone computer set up to run the trans, but i just have the old regular C5 I plan on having the 4R70W rebuilt and getting a computer controler for it. My 83 Tbird has no computer its vaceum advance and distributer, so i figured there'd be no problems with the engine.
I mainly want to do it for the fact that i'd get my floor shifter knocked out and have a better performing and more reliable transmission on my 83.

I guess my other question would be, will the old drive shaft work or will i have to make a custom one and get it balanced?

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #3 –
I've read about people wiring the EECV in parallel with an EECIV or Megasquirt.  Basically, your connect a few sensor inputs to the EECV so it knows what the engine is doing and let it control the trans but it has not control over fuel/timing of the engine.  The EECIV then controls the engine and timing and could care less about the trans.

I was planning on doing something similar for my next project.  I want the electronically controlled trans. 

Read here:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204737
My car is a gravity hybrid.  The gasoline engine gets me up the hills, and gravity gets me down.

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #4 –
The 4r70w is a great trans, it has a lower first and second gear and a real lockup converter ( not a direct drive like the AOD). If you have a MCU ignition and a carbarator it will not be a easy swap. The computer for the trans needs a throtle position, vehicle speed and a tach signal. Also the 4r70w is about an inch longer.
FORD The Pacemaker of a CHEVY

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #5 –
All you have to do is read the Baumann site, it has just about everything you need to know. The trans will work just fine, buy baumann's controller and harness, possibly shorten the driveshaft, and add the TPS as indicated on baumann's site. The speedo should plug right in. I have the same Carbed 3.8 with a c5 and have been planning this swap, just haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Quote
If you have a MCU ignition and a carbarator it will not be a easy swap.

Not sure what that means exactly, but in the grand scheme of things, adding a small sensor to a carburetor is hardly difficult. And since ignition has NOTHING to do with the trans in this case....

Also, CougarGT, why make it more complicated then it has to be? You did not read the application of the OP correctly.

Freeek has it right, although why he made it sound so desolate, I have no idea :)

Anyways, it sounds like you stole my 'Bird ;), so you'll need to post pics ASAP to prove you didn't, and welcome to the forum!
1983 Tbird with '03 Split Port V6 motor swap done! Headers, dual exhaust, 500CFM Edelbrock, 3G upgrade, Electric fan. 3.73 Gears and an FRPP Limited Slip. Five lug complete! 5-Speed conversion complete! Standalone Fuel Injection in progress...

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #6 –
Quote from: jrad235;315388

Also, CougarGT, why make it more complicated then it has to be? You did not read the application of the OP correctly.


I did.  I just told him that I had heard of people installing the newer eec in parallel with the older.  Its a lowbuck method that would let him use his MN-12 computer to run the trans.  Aside from patients and time it should be next to free.
My car is a gravity hybrid.  The gasoline engine gets me up the hills, and gravity gets me down.

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #7 –
There is no computer in his or my car. All we have is a couple switch "sensors" for the idiot lights. Vacuum advance timing, and a carburetor. He would have to install true sensors, in addition to a TPS, and I just can't see that working very well. Maybe on a CFI car, that idea may work a little better. Even then....The MN-12 V6  should be an EEC-IV. V8's after '94 were EEC-V I understand the idea though. I just think it was a little misplaced.
1983 Tbird with '03 Split Port V6 motor swap done! Headers, dual exhaust, 500CFM Edelbrock, 3G upgrade, Electric fan. 3.73 Gears and an FRPP Limited Slip. Five lug complete! 5-Speed conversion complete! Standalone Fuel Injection in progress...

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #8 –
Quote from: jrad235;315388
All you have to do is read the Baumann site, it has just about everything you need to know. The trans will work just fine, buy baumann's controller and harness, possibly shorten the driveshaft, and add the TPS as indicated on baumann's site. The speedo should plug right in. I have the same Carbed 3.8 with a c5 and have been planning this swap, just haven't pulled the trigger yet.



Not sure what that means exactly, but in the grand scheme of things, adding a small sensor to a carburetor is hardly difficult. And since ignition has NOTHING to do with the trans in this case....

Also, CougarGT, why make it more complicated then it has to be? You did not read the application of the OP correctly.

Freeek has it right, although why he made it sound so desolate, I have no idea :)

Anyways, it sounds like you stole my 'Bird ;), so you'll need to post pics ASAP to prove you didn't, and welcome to the forum!


Thats what i thought, Any idea if that sensor will work on my holley 500cfm 2brl carb though? Or is it a universal sensor?

Any Idea if i could swap in the front hubs and rear end? =D I dont really think i can but just wanted to check. I'd like 4 wheel disc brakes and everyhting.

I'll snap some pics soon, i'm getting some money soon to do some work on the bird.

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #9 –
The rear in a mn12 is IRS ( independent rear suspension) and the lug pattern is 5X4.25, trust me, you do not want that pattern.
FORD The Pacemaker of a CHEVY

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Clintd;315496
The rear in a mn12 is IRS ( independent rear suspension) and the lug pattern is 5X4.25, trust me, you do not want that pattern.


oh, i didnt realise it was an irs.... thats kinda sad that i didnt notice. I know i hate that bolt patern, i had a set of cragar wheels that i had to sell because they wern't 5x4.5

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #11 –
Trust me I know your pain
FORD The Pacemaker of a CHEVY
 

Big questions about transmissions need big help please

Reply #12 –
All my parts come tommarow for the bird, plan is to start work on it saturday. I got to get it all together and running before i plot my big trans swap. Mainly i'm getting a new cooling system and a bunch of little parts. I forgot to order an air cleaner though :mad: i beleave i have one out in the garge till i can get something nice looking. I'll start a build thread with some pics.