Fail safe relay wiring

Topic: Fail safe relay wiring (Read 2182 times) previous topic - next topic

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #15 – January 07, 2013, 08:34:51 AM

i did , on post 10... i want you to help us understand the "trouble state" section of the drawing. Thunderchicken gets it but i dont,, Thunderchicken?

i cant see how power gets out to the coil.

the way you show your pictures and after i corrected my lables, i see 12v in on 30, and in a trouble state, power travles through 87A, and then it hits an open coil.

you agree that in the energized state, your power delivery out to the coil is moving through the relay contacts and the coil of the relay?

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #16 – January 07, 2013, 12:31:10 PM

Yes post 10 is correct. If the relay hold in coil is defective the contacts drop and battery is delivered through the ignition switch. With the relay operating properly the power comes from your AUX battery feed. Just concentrate on the relays contacts. Forget the hold in coil.

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #17 – January 07, 2013, 12:37:20 PM

ok, thanks,
what did you mean by "coil",,

do you mean starter relay coil?

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #18 – January 07, 2013, 04:16:19 PM

tom, without the other vehicle components tied into your description, its impossible to see how this works.

If the relay coil opens, then power does ***NOT*** go directly through the ignition switch as you have it wired,, unless,,,
you also are adding another wire where the yellow is now out to the starter relay "coil" if that is what you mean by "coil pull in wire".

if your gonna be a tech rep for us, you gotta figure out how to illustrate yourself beyond words.. its just the way it is.

right click, save my pic as a ".jpg"
right click on the file and "open with microsoft paint"

show your other pieces parts tied into this fail safe relay ,,, i think i get it now but its your design, and i am just trying to understand how you integrate the starter relay into this.

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #19 – January 07, 2013, 04:57:18 PM

Tom, I'm not questioning the need for relays. I agree with you 100% that Ford screwed the pooch on the electrical design of these cars. In fact my 1991 T-Bird's ignition switch fire was instrumental in forcing Ford to recall those switches.

Long story short (or as short as I can make it, anyway), my switch caught fire with me, my ex and three children in the car, 800 miles from home. I jumped out and pulled the battery cable, saving the car. Had it towed to a Ford dealership (I was suffering 3rd degree sunburn, with egg-sized blisters all over my body, and was 800 miles from my tools). They fixed it, then tried to blame my speaker wires for the fire (they just saw large-gauge non-factory wiring, didn't even bother seeing what that wiring was for). I told them I wanted the old switch back. They gave it to me. Finished my trip home, my insurance company asked me to have the car inspected at a local Ford dealership at their cost to see what caused the fire. I obliged, the dealership blamed my key ring (too heavy they said, I said nonsense, the keys go in a lock cylinder, not the switch - they then said they didn't know what caused it). Little while later my insurance calls me and gives me shiznit for taking the car back. I told them the dealership told me to take it, they told me the dealership told them otherwise. I faxed them a copy of my invoice from the dealership, proving I did not "steal" my car back. By this time I was really, REALLY pissed off at Ford. Couple of weeks later I see a bit on the news about Transport Canada and the NTSB investigating Fords for catching fire. They said they didn't know the cause but suspected the ignition switch, and provided a phone number for consumers to call. I called, and explained what happened. When I told them I still had the burned switch they nearly had kittens, and asked if they could have it. "Absolutely", said I. I asked where to send it, they told me it was too important to send in the mail, an investigator would pick it up in person. A few days later the investigator showed up - he had actually flown down from Ottawa! He explained a little about their investigation and told me they had no definitive evidence because the cars had all burned beyond recognition (some of them taking houses with them). I handed him the switch, and he was like Gollum in the Lord of the Rings when he saw it. He said it was exactly what they needed. He asked if I'd be willing to testify if it went to court (as long as they paid my way I'd be fine with it). As he was leaving with the switch I asked him what the danger was of my car catching fire again (new switch, but same old design). He pointed at his rented Explorer and said "Let's put it this way: I won't park that next to the hotel I'm in". Month or so later Transport Canada and the American NTSB announced the recall. I got my switch back in the mail, with a thank-you note from Transport Canada saying it was instrumental in their case...

But yeah, like I said, I agree fully that the electrical systems in these cars suck ass. I did indeed convert my ignition switch, headlights, and fog lights to operate on relays. I didn't say I see any problems with your redundancy setup, I merely said I don't see a need for that redundancy. To each his own.

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #20 – January 07, 2013, 05:35:29 PM

WOW that sucks. The shiznit burnt you. That sucked big time. I have seen a couple of those fires but not involved in one thank God. Thankfully you knew what to do. I got burnt years ago and i dont have to tell you what it is like. Thank God you and yours got out safely. I hate to think what a lay person would have dun. I have read that some of those cars did burn homes down. Actually Ford had a bunch of recalls and on the Cruse Control as well. I disconnected and removed the Cruse on my moms Lincoln years ago. I never brought it in for the recall. No need MOM only drives locally and never goes over 35 MPH. Thanks for the heads up. That story is something else. Burns suck. Take care Tom!!

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #21 – January 07, 2013, 05:59:37 PM

I wasn't burned by the car fire, I was burned by the sun. My eastern Canadian skin was not used to that upstate New York sunshine, and I got a third-degree sunburn. Thanks for your concern though...

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #22 – January 07, 2013, 06:10:36 PM

just got confirmed today (side note) that the "governing authority having juistiction" does not include any language pertaining to "automobiles" or "motor boats" therefore anymore of my spouting off at the mouth about NEC this and NEC that pertaining to cars should rightfully deserve a smack upside my head.,, how will i ever avoid repeating my past incorrectness i dont know....... maybe i am a

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #23 – January 07, 2013, 08:34:41 PM

No problem. Been there many times!!

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #24 – January 07, 2013, 09:45:42 PM

I just got a recall a couple weeks ago for the cruise control on my 1997 Mountaineer. Since it's our only vehicle that's running AND legal, it's going to have to wait awhile before I take it in.

I've also had an '89 Thunderbird catch fire on me while driving, but it was the alternator connection, not the ign. switch.

When i bought the new ign switch awhile back for the Mustang vert, I asked the guy at the counter for the best brand of switch they had...he looks at me funny, and says, "you want chrome or black?" I snapped back that i needed the shaging ignition switch and not the lock cylinder. He got a manager for me, and I got what I needed and GTFO of there. Ughh, but yeah, Ford dropped the ball with the switches and various other electrical things. Alternator connections on the Foxes, F trucks, and the Panther cars of the 80's and 90's especially.

Chevy has their own share of issues, lock cylinders that the key will come out of while in run or accessory, DRL (daytime running lights) with almost always one burned out light ('90-something and newer trucks), brittle engine wiring on newer vehicles. I've had to repair several broken wires on my blue truck...

You'd think the domestics would learn after several electrical recalls and lost houses due to vehicle fires. Also, i'm not bashing Chevy, Ford, Dodge, puppies cars, the Budweiser Clydesdales, or the neighbor kid's Polaris Sportsman.

If it's made by man, it will give you problems.

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #25 – January 07, 2013, 11:34:37 PM

You JUST got the 09S29 notice?! We've been doing these non-stop for like 3 years.

If you disconnect the cruise safety switch at the front of the master, and see that it's wet with brake fluid, you'll get an updated one that won't leak. If it's dry, they'll install a fused jumper harness in-line with the switch (so that if it does leak, it just blows a 2 amp fuse). I think that if you noticed it was wet (maybe after a sloppy top-off

) and, say, for fear of a fire left it unhooked; you'd get the new switch no questions asked(whether it was really leaking or not).

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #26 – January 08, 2013, 01:08:21 AM

yeah but those are debts you end up having to pay back later.. some of use get away with it while others try it once and pay it back x 10

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #27 – January 08, 2013, 06:25:29 AM

Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;406447

You JUST got the 09S29 notice?! We've been doing these non-stop for like 3 years.

If you disconnect the cruise safety switch at the front of the master, and see that it's wet with brake fluid, you'll get an updated one that won't leak. If it's dry, they'll install a fused jumper harness in-line with the switch (so that if it does leak, it just blows a 2 amp fuse). I think that if you noticed it was wet (maybe after a sloppy top-off ) and, say, for fear of a fire left it unhooked; you'd get the new switch no questions asked(whether it was really leaking or not).

Longer than that. My dealership was half Ford and Half Dodge. I did several of those recalls myself. I have not been in the business for over 5 years.

Fail safe relay wiring

Reply #28 – January 08, 2013, 05:06:00 PM

Well, is there some list of issues of our cars? I'm asking, because US cars imported to Europe can't apply the recall at european Ford dealers. They don't even know US Fords (except mustang of course).