Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

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Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

January 27, 2017, 12:04:07 AM

Given the fact that I have worked with turbochargers and superchargers in marine applications, I have been thinking of doing a Turbo setup on my '86 5.0 Elan. Since I am planning to build another engine for the car next year, I have to decide whether to go with a blown 306 or NA stroker. Turbo kits have become uber popular on fox mustangs due to their relatively low acquisition price however, all of the kits (Ebay & other) are specifically designed for mustangs. I'm speculating that the engine compartment should be similar enough to accommodate the mustang kit, but am concerned about mounting of the intercooler, since the Birds/Cats differ from the mustang forward of the radiator support. I want to retain the AC, so packaging an evaporator, aux tranny cooler and intercooler might be a real challenge. The other issue is the stock AOD would likely fail under the added power or be unable to put it all to the ground. In this regard, an AOD-E 4R70W from a 3.8 V6 with a stand alone controller would appear to be a better choice for this application. I already have an 8.8 swap in progress.

It would be depressing to purchase a kit like an ON3 only to find that everything has to be modified and fiddled with. That alone defeats the purpose of buying a kit. I understand these systems pretty well, but also understand that piece mealing everything together can get costs out of control fast. Hence the reason for seeing if anyone has tried it. There is a dyno shop just north of me that has a large mustang following, so I might just see if any have come through their shop.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #1 – January 27, 2017, 05:04:55 AM

Firewall to rad support, all the sheet metal is the same. Our cougar birds have way more room behind the headlights and bumper then a fox stang. Most "bolt on" kits will require modifications or parts substitutions, so I guarantee there will be surprises, stang or not.

The 86-88 5.0 motors also have different motor mounts. They stick out more, but you can cut the "catch" off if it interferes.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #2 – January 27, 2017, 08:15:08 AM

Never tried it, but the first thing that comes to mind is: The stock speed-density ECM setup probably wouldn't know what to do with a turbo.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #3 – January 27, 2017, 10:39:01 AM

Your concern would be with the intercooler mounting and some possible reworking of the hot and cold side piping going to and coming from the intercooler. Is your car a console shift car or on the column? The linkage on the column shift cars may cause an issue with exhaust routing but other than that I don't see much of an issue.

I do not know the size of your build budget but if you are looking at the ON3 stuff then I am assuming you are looking for a budget build. I only say that as the ON3 turbos are typically Chinese in manufacture and do not have ball bearings. With that said I am guessing you know that the limits of a stock 302 block are about 500 flywheel hp, however a roller 351W block (94 and up) will hold about 700 flywheel hp. So you may want to build a mild 351W roller motor and put about 8-10 psi of boost on it with a controller and call it a day.

Your other choice is to do a 5.0 Coyote motor and turbo and get about 800 rwhp from it stock. You upgrade a few parts (oil pump gears, rods, pistons, etc.) and you can get about 1,000 to 1,200 rwhp with no issue. Stock block, crank, and heads on these motors are nice out of the box.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #4 – January 27, 2017, 02:34:59 PM

You guessed correctly.

All of your points are well taken however, I have a bunch of parts in my shop that greatly reduces the cost of building a low boost 5.0 platform. Yes, the ON3 stuff is Chinese and mostly plain bearing but, you can order them with ball bearings at extra cost. There are a ton of these around here, as ON3 is a few hours away from me. The dyno shop north of me tunes most of them. I have a kings ransom tied up in my other cars and boats with premium hardware, so the Bird is my "budget" toy.

You are spot on regarding the linkage. I do indeed have a column shift and might well have some fab work ahead of me to get it to work. Since I'm not putting a cage in the car, mega HP is of no use to me. It would require a fully built and expensive AODE in addition to additional suspension and chassis mods. I would be pleased with 450 RWHP that puts me on par with most of the late model stuff.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #5 – January 27, 2017, 05:00:33 PM

If you are only going to shoot for 450 rwhp then build a mild roller 351W and put a 4R70W behind it and call it a day. A 347 is still based on the weaker 302W block so why spend all the time and effort? Besides, the 351W would take some boost later down the road when you get bored.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #6 – January 27, 2017, 05:13:07 PM

I'm not familiar with the column shift linkage but if has components hanging off close to the starter bolts... You will have a hard time with the downpipe. To keep your AC you may need custom lines made to get around the turbo. As stated earlier.....There will always be modifications and massaging required but for the most part it will bolt in fine. I swapped in a mustang K for my 87 so I can't comment on clearance if yours has that pedistal type engine mount like mine did.

Your goals for 450 RWHP can be had very easily. Mine made 400 RWHP with massaged stock E7 heads, stock cam, Cobra intake on a 306 through a T5 and 10lbs of boost no intercooler. The key is a good tune...If you are still running the stock computer you may have a difficult time finding someone who can tune it. These days mustang ECUs are expensive and to be honest...... Knowing what I know now, I would go with one of the Megasquirt options and ditch the MAF. It would have likely saved me alot of tuning time and money.

John

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #7 – January 27, 2017, 05:32:13 PM

I forgot to mention.... Don't be afraid of journal bearing turbos. If sized appropriately the come on fast and hard.

If your curious.... This is how my old B&G hotside sits. Jeeze it's been in there 12 yrs now that I think about it.

John

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #8 – January 27, 2017, 07:32:16 PM

Skunk, I had planned to go with a Mustang K member to get rid of some weight when I pull the 86 motor. That is why I have held off buying front suspension parts. I'm going to do everything at once.

I have premium alloy heads on my other stuff (Darts, AFR's & TFS 11R's), but for this build, I ported a set of GT40's just because it is cold outside and I needed something I could work on in my basp00get. I have an explorer intake I'm also porting to match the heads. I figure a stock GT cam will be fine with the turbo. As I said previously, I'm using up stuff lying around my shop, including a 71 302 block and a set of +.030" forged pistons I picked off Summit's demo rack.

You bring up a good point regarding ECU's. My Bird still has the original speed density system that needs to be upgraded. A MAF conversion was originally in the plan, but like you, I've been debating on going to an aftermarket controller. I ran into so many issues with the GM MEFI system when I upgraded the ProCharged 502 BBC in my boat, I decided to go with a blow thru CSU carb.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #9 – January 27, 2017, 11:25:00 PM

Column shifter sits on the drivers side and bolts from the firewall to the bellhousing and a few odd rods and linkages in that general area back to the trans shifter.

Eric the car guy on youtube is doing a Fairmount single big turbo and I believe he is using an on3 turbo piping and intercooler.

Like I said before, we have a ton more room in our cars, especially the 87-88 front ends. The over flow is infront of the radiator, but everything else on the 86-88 5.0 cars is pretty much identical to the stang engine bay wise.even a mustang computer doesnt require a single wire re routed unless you want the fuel pump monitoring wire or upgrade to mass air.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #10 – January 28, 2017, 01:11:04 AM

If I do it, I'll post pics of the build. The car is in the body shop right now getting refinished in Ford Ingot Silver Metallic, which is the current silver Ford uses on the new cars. It is also getting the sub frame connectors welded in. The interior is red and is so nice that only the drivers seat needs any work. The previous owner must have had an asymmetrical butt where the left cheek weighed ten times that of the right. I fall into the door when sitting in it.

I just finished my 8.8 with rear disks and it is ready for the car. Also ready are my new (to me) 17" silver Bullitts with used Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's.

I never intended to do much with this car as I have a restored Maverick Grabber as my primary hot rod. It turned out to drive so nice and is quiet to boot. Hence the reason to go stealth with a turbo. I LOVE understated cars that no one expects to run well.

Has Anyone Tried to Adapt a Fox Mustang Turbo System to their 5.0L Bird or Cougar?

Reply #11 – January 28, 2017, 01:15:13 AM

Quote from: Haystack;459014

Column shifter sits on the drivers side and bolts from the firewall to the bellhousing and a few odd rods and linkages in that general area back to the trans shifter.

Eric the car guy on youtube is doing a Fairmount single big turbo and I believe he is using an on3 turbo piping and intercooler.

Like I said before, we have a ton more room in our cars, especially the 87-88 front ends. The over flow is infront of the radiator, but everything else on the 86-88 5.0 cars is pretty much identical to the stang engine bay wise.even a mustang computer doesnt require a single wire re routed unless you want the fuel pump monitoring wire or upgrade to mass air.

I'm going to an AODE, so I expect there will be differences.