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5.0 junkyard build.

Recently picked up a rough bodied 87 t-bird with the 5.0, and am building it using junkyard parts. Basic project goal is sub 15sec quarter.
Rear end is getting swapped for a 88 TC rear, with 3.55's. I can go 3.73 or 4.10 using sploader gears, but I do wanna be able to cruise 90 without horrible gas mileage.

Engine build.
First stage: Convert to MAF using 91 mustang H.0. computer, MAF, and 19lb injectors. Make sure it runs happy.

Major build: Use 97 explorer 5.0 block, with gt40p heads, and gt40 upper and lower intake. Use 19lb injectors with stock t-bird fuel rails. 65mm BBK egr spacer, and modded sploader throttle body. Long tube headers and free flowing exhaust system. Mustang H.O. distributor. 70mm MAF.

Do you think this setup will be able to break 15 seconds in the quarter? Any recommended changes in the build such as a different cam, upgrade to 24lb injectors, etc? (prefer doable with junkyard parts, or otherwise on the cheap)
Thanks,
Chris
87 Thunderbird 5.0
Engine: 97 p-code explorer block, heads, and intake; 88 HO cam, 1.7 RR's, A9P, Kenne Bell 2.1 Flow/Blow 8psi, 42lb injectors, LMAF, 75mm TB, Tuned by Don Lasota
Trans: 02 Stang 4r70w with Baumann TCS
Suspension: Front: 03-04 cobra springs and struts, TC rack. Rear: CHE arms, ChuckW shock mounts, Bullitt springs and shocks
5 bolt with 95 mustang front and mark vii rear.
TC 3.73 L/S rear
03-04 SVT Cobra 17x9's with 275/40r17's.

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #1 –
Sounds like you have done alittle bit of homework. SD is actually faster then MAF if you are going to stay with a stockish setup. The gt-40's are better then the e6-7 heads. Intake is one of the biggest restrictions with these motors. You have to swap the computer cam and fuel injectors all at the same time. You should be able to run with those parts, maybe even quicker. If you going to upgrade down the line, just stick to a stock H.O. camshaft.

Don't forget about supporting modifications. You will probably want to upgrade your tranny, get at least a shift kit or valve body upgrade, and a tranny cooler. While you have it apart, you should also upgrade your fuel pump. The suspension should probably also be addressed. If the motor that is already in the car is in decent shape, you might want to just use it and swap the heads and intake. If you want to get better gas mileage, then don't upgrade the gears more then 3.55's. If its not a concern go bigger. Go with 2 1/2 exhaust or bigger. Let the car breath. pullies are also almost like free horsepower.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #2 –
i have:

-cold air intake
-65mm TB
-HO upper
-b303 cam
-mustang computer (still SD)
-stock mustang headers
-gutted exhaust

i havent had it at the track yet, but on our 1/4 mile "test track" it runs high 13's to low 14's timed with a stop watch.
Currently Birdless but never Foxless

86 Mustang GT

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #3 –
DO NOT convert to MAF before you add a HO cam to the T-bird's engine. The MAF system expects a HO cam firing order (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8) and opens the injectors accordingly. If you run MAF computer with the stock T-bird cam which has a 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order the car will run like ass.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #4 –
That's what I originally thought, but this article claims it will run fine. Since I'm not afraid to try stuff, I'll give it a shot and post how it goes, unless anyone here has already tried it and had problems.
Thanks,
Chris

"The Speed Density T-bird's ignition firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. This is different from the Mustang 5.0's 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. You must retain the T-bird firing order unless the cam is replaced by one with lobes conforming to the Mustang's firing order. However, under no cirspoogestances should you attempt to rewire the fuel-injector wire harness to match the firing order of any retained non-H.O.-style camshaft (keep them hooked up just the way they currently are). At the computer end, the new Mustang ECM will now trigger the injectors according to the Mustang's firing order. Even though the ignition distributor still fires the spark plugs according to the T-bird's firing order, this won't cause any driveability problems."

ttp://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_0705_pitstop_ford_thunderbird_mass_air_sensor/index.html
87 Thunderbird 5.0
Engine: 97 p-code explorer block, heads, and intake; 88 HO cam, 1.7 RR's, A9P, Kenne Bell 2.1 Flow/Blow 8psi, 42lb injectors, LMAF, 75mm TB, Tuned by Don Lasota
Trans: 02 Stang 4r70w with Baumann TCS
Suspension: Front: 03-04 cobra springs and struts, TC rack. Rear: CHE arms, ChuckW shock mounts, Bullitt springs and shocks
5 bolt with 95 mustang front and mark vii rear.
TC 3.73 L/S rear
03-04 SVT Cobra 17x9's with 275/40r17's.

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #5 –
It CAN work.....
While using an HO computer with the HO cam would be the proper thing to do running it with the SO cam for a while WITH AN ADJUSTABLE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR would work.  Leave the injector wiring alone.
Here's a write-up explaining why.

Quote
the problem is that you will force the system to run into what's called, an "Adaptive Strategy " condition. When you check SD/MA EEC-IV systems ECM pinout at the ECM ('86-'93), HO and non-HO, with the exception of the '91-'93 T-Bird MA system (similar to '94-'95 Mustang systems).....all have the same arrangement.

If you change the injector pins, the system will adjust fuel trim on a bank 1 injector, based on the B1 O2 readings, for an injector that is now connected in bank 2, and vice versa........for example, using their layout you have a 154.... firing order

1 - 5 - 4 - 2 - 6 - 3 - 7 - 8 which divided by bank (B1 = cyl 1-4 and B2 = cyl. 5-8) would be.....

B1-B2-B1-B1-B2-B1-B2-B2......now you switch the injector wiring .....5-to-3, 4-to-7, 3-to-5 and 7-to-4......to ensure the injectors firing order......

1 - 3 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 8 ......which should be.....

B1-B1-B2-B1-B2-B2-B1-B2.....when you lay it out by bank, but it's not.... what happens to the "logic".....

EXAMPLE: B1 O2 reads RICH condition and adjusts (shortens) fuel trim pulse for B1 injectors (1-4)

1. System shortens B1 fuel trim, but since #3 and #4 are now in B2 (5 and 7).....such a change will not be enough since the O2 in B1 will read half of the fuel trim effect (2 injectors), so the system continues to shorten fuel trim even further.....looking for a change in B1 AF readings....but wait, there's more......The fuel pulse tpuppies for B1 will affect B2 O2 readings (#3 and #4 are in B2)....causing B2 readings to be LEAN...

2. The system then determines it needs to lengthen B2 fuel pulse due to #1 above, and it does for the 5-8 injectors, but since #5 and #7 are now in B1, the adjustment for B2 affects B1 O2 readings....causing B1 to continue to read RICH. And since B2 O2 readings have not changed that much, the system continues to lengthen B2 fuel trim pulse.........

For crying out loud, the system is going crazy..... ...(I know I am explaining this.....)...and will eventually cause a ....condition from the ECM.

It's like having a normal EEC-IV system, but installing the LH O2 sensor to the RH connector and vice versa.....the system will adjust injectors 1-4 based on the AF readings from injectors 5-8......and ....I've seen a few of those cases as well......

That being said, do it all at once.  It's less work in the long run.  If you are intending on an Explorer shortblock, pull the Explorer cam and put in an HO cam as Haystack suggested. Your T-bird rails are the same fare as the 86-93 Mustang rails, so they will be fine.

I'd run either the 3.55's or the 3.73's with a tire near stock diameter.

Thought about your torque converter options?
-- 05 Mustang GT-Whipplecharged !!
--87 5.0 Trick Flow Heads & Intake - Custom Cam - Many other goodies...3100Lbs...Low12's!

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #6 –
I realized i would have to get a HO water pump to make the accessory drive work, but i didn't realize I would have to switch out the cam. If you'll excuse my ignorance, could you explain the reasoning behind this? And would I be better off with something like the trick flow stage 1 cam?

Torque converter wise i was planning on just using a stock converter. Will that be a problem?

Also, I will probably do the MAF conversion first, but only a day or so ahead of pulling the whole thing apart. I would just like to verify that it works correctly.
87 Thunderbird 5.0
Engine: 97 p-code explorer block, heads, and intake; 88 HO cam, 1.7 RR's, A9P, Kenne Bell 2.1 Flow/Blow 8psi, 42lb injectors, LMAF, 75mm TB, Tuned by Don Lasota
Trans: 02 Stang 4r70w with Baumann TCS
Suspension: Front: 03-04 cobra springs and struts, TC rack. Rear: CHE arms, ChuckW shock mounts, Bullitt springs and shocks
5 bolt with 95 mustang front and mark vii rear.
TC 3.73 L/S rear
03-04 SVT Cobra 17x9's with 275/40r17's.

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #7 –
Your current water pump SHOULD be a reverse rotation pump.  You should not have to swap it out....
Quote
And would I be better off with something like the trick flow stage 1 cam?

If you have time to port the heads and gt suitable valvesprings that will accomodate it as well as properly measure the correct pushrod length needed to make it all work together, then maybe.

Quote
Torque converter wise i was planning on just using a stock converter. Will that be a problem?

Something with a stall speed a few hundred RPM higher would wake it up.  If you were to run the Trick Flow cam, something with a stall speed of 2600 or more is an absolute must.
-- 05 Mustang GT-Whipplecharged !!
--87 5.0 Trick Flow Heads & Intake - Custom Cam - Many other goodies...3100Lbs...Low12's!

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #8 –
Yes, the explorer pump is rev rotation, but the FEAD is shorter due to explorer engine bay clearance. Ive already built one of these motors that i swapped into my 98 ranger, so I'm somewhat familiar with them. (hence i already have a 97 explorer block and intake sitting on a stand waiting to be built)  Anyways, the water pump rotation is right, but its snout is too short. I believe its the same as 94-95 stangs, but shorter than the rest.

As to the cam, I'll probably just stick with an HO cam then. I can probably come up with one on eBay.

For a better torque converter, is there anything factory application that would work? I don't really wanna be out the money for a custom converter.
Thanks,
Chris
87 Thunderbird 5.0
Engine: 97 p-code explorer block, heads, and intake; 88 HO cam, 1.7 RR's, A9P, Kenne Bell 2.1 Flow/Blow 8psi, 42lb injectors, LMAF, 75mm TB, Tuned by Don Lasota
Trans: 02 Stang 4r70w with Baumann TCS
Suspension: Front: 03-04 cobra springs and struts, TC rack. Rear: CHE arms, ChuckW shock mounts, Bullitt springs and shocks
5 bolt with 95 mustang front and mark vii rear.
TC 3.73 L/S rear
03-04 SVT Cobra 17x9's with 275/40r17's.

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #9 –
Just use the water pump, timing cover, and accessory drive from the T-bird and you'll be fine. You also need to use the oil pan and pickup from a fox body with the dual sump oil pan. Again the T-bird parts will work.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #11 –
I ran a stock 3.8SC converter with my Trick Flow cam, it was a dog out of the hole... A Stallion 2600 dropped the ET half a second(14.08 to 13.56), and a higher stall would be even better... With the addition of a full 2.5" exhaust(already had BBK shorties), best on the std bore 5.0 has been 13.11@105... Car also has TF heads & the stock 3.73 TC rear...

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #12 –
Quote from: thunderjet302;323173
Just use the water pump, timing cover, and accessory drive from the T-bird and you'll be fine. You also need to use the oil pan and pickup from a fox body with the dual sump oil pan. Again the T-bird parts will work.


Whats wrong with using the stock t-bird oil pan?

hypostang, thanks for the heads up on the cam
87 Thunderbird 5.0
Engine: 97 p-code explorer block, heads, and intake; 88 HO cam, 1.7 RR's, A9P, Kenne Bell 2.1 Flow/Blow 8psi, 42lb injectors, LMAF, 75mm TB, Tuned by Don Lasota
Trans: 02 Stang 4r70w with Baumann TCS
Suspension: Front: 03-04 cobra springs and struts, TC rack. Rear: CHE arms, ChuckW shock mounts, Bullitt springs and shocks
5 bolt with 95 mustang front and mark vii rear.
TC 3.73 L/S rear
03-04 SVT Cobra 17x9's with 275/40r17's.

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #13 –
Quote from: a77cj7;323195
Whats wrong with using the stock t-bird oil pan?

hypostang, thanks for the heads up on the cam


Nothing wrong with using the Tbird pan its the Explorer pan that won't work
 

 And you are welcome , I got my HO cam and computer from him , great guy t o deal with :D
Fox-less at the moment
 

5.0 junkyard build.

Reply #14 –
Quote from: a77cj7;323195
Whats wrong with using the stock t-bird oil pan?



fox body=T-bird;)
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.