Wont start

Topic: Wont start (Read 1399 times) previous topic - next topic

Wont start

March 08, 2005, 10:14:08 AM

Changed timing chain in my 3.8L. The first time I put it together I had the camshaft 180 off. I then tore it back apart and got it lined up right. It still wouldnt start. Everything is properly lined up. I thought I maybe killed the spark plugs, so I changed them they were pretty nasty. But it still will not start. Any help would be greatly appreciated PLEASE, Thank you

Re: Wont start

Reply #1 – March 08, 2005, 05:30:34 PM

how in the gods green earth did you get it out 180 by changing the chain? :eek:

what year car?
Ill assume its not a chevy 3.8 :flip:

if its an 87 or down,, can you see fuel spirting as you crank?

do you have spark out of the coil?

do you have spark up to any given plug wire?

what was the reason for the timing chain replacement?
*hopefully it wasnt casue you did not have spark

does the rotor spin as you crank? (possible sheered gear pin)

If its an 87 or 88 , turn the key forward,find the fuel shrader valve and push in the needle, any fuel come out real hard?

when you installed your dizzy back, did you consider that it may still be backwards also? When you dropped your dizzy back in, did you do so to allow the rotor to be pointing directly at number 1 plug wire post?
If you did and your cam was 180 out, then your dizzy is now 180 again,, humm , i think,, confussing myself here :giggle:

going deeper
remove valve cover on pass side
remove number 1 plug
go get a narrow screwdriver that fits in there
rotate the crank with a socket and align the pointer to 0deg TDC.
both valves should be closed and both pushrods should spin a little.\
if they aint,, spin the crank around one full turn
remove dizzy cap and pay close attention to where on the cap the rotor is pointing.
the rotor should be pointing to number 1 spark plug wire on the cap
insert screwdriver to make sure your piston is up *TDC.
rotate crank left to right to insure your on ***TOP DEAD CENTER by using the screwdriver to feel with.

next up would be
ign module which is possible
or
Stator assy down in the dizzy.

Re: Wont start

Reply #2 – March 08, 2005, 09:04:18 PM

I did put the timing chain on because it was bad. I took it apart the second time and got everything lined up how it is suppose to be, the crank, the cam, and the distributor, are all pointing at number one. I do have fuel going into the throttle body and I also have spark in all areas.

Re: Wont start

Reply #3 – March 09, 2005, 12:24:23 AM

with that short of a response, ill take it your pretty confident in what you've done. Pretty much the symptoms of having you butt kicked by a problem you cant figure out.
:giggle:

ive been there so thats why i asked those specific questions above but some of them still need replies. You said "fuel going into the throttle body" so ill pretty much take that as a ,, I have an 83-87 3.8L v6 cougar to tbird.

If your dead sure and have checked and double checked,, id say the only animal capable of allowing you to have fuel and have spark but no start would be the Stator Assy down in the dizzy. There are no know troubleshooting steps for this puppy. the ing module on the side of the dizzy can be checked and i have that if you want it.
Sometimes you could include the ign module also cause it happend to me once,,had spark, had fuel,, no start. ended up being the ign module. Had the same thing happen but this time it was the stator. If you got money, be picky on where you get this part from,, pay the dealer for the good one but they are pricey.

You need about 40lbs of fuel at the cfi to be perfect,, give or take a couple pounds for wear or abnormal workings.

you need ***blue*** spark from the wires, not yellow

you need the dizzy / crank / cam to agree on number 1 post on the dizzy cap.

if you have all this, its gotta be the stator or ign module. they do go out without warning or if a voltage spike has fried it due to a jump start ect.

next would be to swap the eec out.

next would probably be a whole bunch of other stuff that required a meter.

Re: Wont start

Reply #4 – March 09, 2005, 01:05:53 AM

and some food for thought,,,,,,might help you out if it gets complicated. More specifically the bold statement about the TFI module beyond the coil check below..

Coil Check
meter set to ohms, car off, undo plug wire and input conn
measure from small pin to small pin and expect .3 to 1.0 ohms
***things to remember when using your digital meter. when you turn on you meter and set it to ohms, your meter may have a reading without touching anything yet. Remember to subtact your UNCALIBRATED meter reading from your coil reading above. A properly calibrated meter should be all zero's upon selecting ohms. Since this is almost a direct short we are reading here,, you meter being off will only complicate your troubleshooting.***

measure from on small pin to the plug wire post and expect 8000 to 11000 ohms.

-------------------------
TFI MODULE TEST
Its possible the tfi is bad and allow fuel to injectors. For 20 seconds a bad tfi will allow fuel injectors to pulse. after that they will not pulse if the tfi is bad.

with the key off, there should be no voltage at any wires on the TFI connector. Prob with stick pin.
with the key on,, there will be power on the 4th and 5th wire going from top down.

remove the small red wire from starter solenoid on the fender well to prevent starting.
while the key is held to the start position
power is found on the wires 3,4 and 5 counting from top down.
if no power is found at this point,, its a wiring problem.

place the key in the run position and remove coil plug wire
tap into the 5th wire down on the TFI with a stick pin/jumpe wire
ground out the 5th wire just quickly enough to see spark, dont hold ground and damage a good TFI.
If no spark is found on the grounded 5th wire, check for 12v at the input of the coil.
if power is found,, then test or swap the coil.

Hold your TFI module in your hand just as it were mounted in your Dizzy.
There will three pins on the top pointing up. The large 6 pin conn will be to your right.
the three pins on the top count from left to right *D1 D2 D3*
the six pin conn count top down H1 H2 H3 H4 H5 H6
the metal base is called "base"
now that the parts of the TFI are identified,, trouble shoot in ohms by the chart below

D1 to H1 12.8K
D1 to H2 17.4K
D1 to H3 1000
D1 to H4 11.5K
D1 to H5 4.2K
D1 to H6 0.0K
D2 to H1 1.2K
D2 to H2 5.8K
D2 to H3 12.6K
D2 to H4 100
D2 to H5 15.8K
D2 to H6 11.6K
D3 to H1 100
D3 to H2 4.7K
D3 to H3 13.7K
D3 to H4 1200
D3 to H5 16.9K
D3 to H6 12.7K
D1 to D2 11.5K
D1 to D3 12.6K
D2 to D3 1100
D1 to BASE 0.0K
D2 to BASE 12K
D3 to BASE 13.1K

Re: Wont start

Reply #5 – March 09, 2005, 09:48:58 AM

It is a 87 TBird V6, sorry about not specifying. Thank you for the info, when I get a chance and above maybe 40 degrees I will give it a shot. Thank you very much again.