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Topic: Finally all together and NO START ?? (Read 1356 times) previous topic - next topic

Finally all together and NO START ??

So today I finally after 2 years filled up all the fluids in my 85 TC, rebuilt 2.3T motor and all, pulled the distributor and primed the oil till it built pressure. Put the engine back at TDC and made sure that I dropped the Dizzy back in on number one. Cranked but wouldnt start. So I checked for spark ...none. 

Well I have an MSD 6A with tach adapter ( I had it on the car), I checked for voltage at the coil..nothing. I had mounted this MSD so that I could go back to original setup on the fly. Checked those connections, had 12 volts. SO I guess I will just have to eliminate the MSD. From what I understand they are useless anyway in our cars. Is this correct?

Also I had remotely mounted my TFI(which is new, also a new PIP) I did the 3 wire jumper through an old TFI( I gutted and soldered jumpers). Sheilded the wires and wrapped in a wire loom.

I also put in a PE EEC (not sure if it works or not, I purchased from someone on Turboford).

So here is my big question, How do I know if the PE is working and my remote TFI is good.

Things that I know worked are, it did fire up the new Walbro 255lph hp pump, and the engine cranked. Also seems that everything lit up, but I havent tried removing MSD yet to see if it fires when connected without it.
1985 Thunderbird TC
2.3l .03 over,Ported and polished Head and E6 Manifold, LA3, T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo, Stinger FMIC, Forge BOV, Full 3" Exhaust, Essy Timing Gears & UDP's, BBK 255lph Fuel Pump, Kirban AFPR, Kirban Short Shifter, K&N Cone, Forced4 VC Vent Kit, PA Performance 3g Alternator, Energy Suspension Bushings throughout, CHE LCA's, SFC's [/LEFT]

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #1 –
do you have another computer to test with? i used a 6a in my t/c for 2 years without issue it actually ran better with it. just unplug it at the coil to test without it. i also would check continuity through the tfi blank. good luck
louie  :birdsmily:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]       
My famous last words:
It seemed like a good idea at the time.        88TC R.I.P.      88 Sport build in progress

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #2 –
Quote from: chri85tc;176686
So today I finally after 2 years filled up all the fluids in my 85 TC, rebuilt 2.3T motor and all, pulled the distributor and primed the oil till it built pressure. Put the engine back at TDC and made sure that I dropped the Dizzy back in on number one. Cranked but wouldnt start. So I checked for spark ...none. 

Well I have an MSD 6A with tach adapter ( I had it on the car), I checked for voltage at the coil..nothing.
[COLOR="Red"]ummm,,,,,,,where did you check for voltage?[/COLOR]
 I had mounted this MSD so that I could go back to original setup on the fly. Checked those connections, had 12 volts. SO I guess I will just have to eliminate the MSD. From what I understand they are useless anyway in our cars. Is this correct?



Also I had remotely mounted my TFI(which is new, also a new PIP) I did the 3 wire jumper through an old TFI( I gutted and soldered jumpers). Sheilded the wires and wrapped in a wire loom.

I also put in a PE EEC (not sure if it works or not, I purchased from someone on Turboford).

So here is my big question, How do I know if the PE is working and my remote TFI is good.

[COLOR="red"]first off do a blink test on any given injector connector by putting a small bulb/socet wiring up into the connection and crank.  Lite should come on with key on, then blink as you crank.  If your fuel pump is wired up with the factory harness then its getting power from the integrated control module (relay).  The ICR has control circuits for various things including power out to the sensors and such. 

Your eec gets power via the yellow wire fuse link a directly.  3.8 and 5.0's obtain power differently  but the same,,, hard to explain.  blink test the injectors first and that will tell us if the eec is working.

also check for power on the TPS and that will tell you if the eec is working.

go to my diy link at my sig below and you'll fnd the testing for the TFI[/COLOR]


Things that I know worked are, it did fire up the new Walbro 255lph hp pump,
[COLOR="red"]how did it fire up?  you said it wont start and has no spark??  Is this a PAST tense statement?
your post is kind of hard to follow.[/COLOR]

and the engine cranked. Also seems that everything lit up, but I havent tried removing MSD yet to see if it fires when connected without it.


[COLOR="red"]take the msd out of the picture and wire in factory stuff till you get it to spark and run.[/COLOR]
[COLOR="red"]
ALSO<<<<<.... go to electrical tech and pull up all wiring diagrams for the 2.3eec. im sure they are in there and if i havent or user softtouch hasnt posted them, we can.  [/COLOR]

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #3 –
thanks jcassity for the info,
Removed MSD
I tried the blink test - No blink
check for voltage at the TPS - No Voltage.
checked the TPI as per DIY it checks out ok.

So I am assuming the EEC is no good. I have my old EEC that used the small VAM and smaller 30lb injectors(of which I now have large VAM and 36lb) could this work?

All I meant about the fuel pump was that it energized engine never fired.
1985 Thunderbird TC
2.3l .03 over,Ported and polished Head and E6 Manifold, LA3, T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo, Stinger FMIC, Forge BOV, Full 3" Exhaust, Essy Timing Gears & UDP's, BBK 255lph Fuel Pump, Kirban AFPR, Kirban Short Shifter, K&N Cone, Forced4 VC Vent Kit, PA Performance 3g Alternator, Energy Suspension Bushings throughout, CHE LCA's, SFC's [/LEFT]

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #4 –
*Update*

Ok I got it to start today but it runs like .

Had to replace TFI and PIP/Stator. stator failed test and TFI didnt exactly measure up with the ohm meter.

Thought it was that I Forgot I had put in a kirban AFPR and had to adjust pressure (so I set base at 40psi).

Then I went to adjust the TPS and couldnt get anything voltage wise.

Problem is I get no voltage at the Vref (should be 5.0 volts) on any of the sensors. So what should I be looking for now?
1985 Thunderbird TC
2.3l .03 over,Ported and polished Head and E6 Manifold, LA3, T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo, Stinger FMIC, Forge BOV, Full 3" Exhaust, Essy Timing Gears & UDP's, BBK 255lph Fuel Pump, Kirban AFPR, Kirban Short Shifter, K&N Cone, Forced4 VC Vent Kit, PA Performance 3g Alternator, Energy Suspension Bushings throughout, CHE LCA's, SFC's [/LEFT]

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #5 –
O/W wire from pin 26 of the EEC is the source of the ref voltage.

Voltage inputs to EEC:
+12v pin 1 always hot.
+12v pins 37 & 57 hot with ignition in run(EEC power relay picked)
Battery ground pins 40 & 60
Case ground pin 20

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #6 –
there you go,, eec relay:D

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #7 –
Once you get it running good if you decide to try out the MSD again here's a tip....

I had to ground my MSD to the battery ground on the engine block. It would not work at all if I grounded it any other place. I found the MSD to be useful at the top of the tach at 15 psi boost with my turbo 4.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
86 5.0 Turbocoupe (Katrina), 87 5.0 Sport (Rita)

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #8 –
Thanks guys I will be working on it today !
1985 Thunderbird TC
2.3l .03 over,Ported and polished Head and E6 Manifold, LA3, T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo, Stinger FMIC, Forge BOV, Full 3" Exhaust, Essy Timing Gears & UDP's, BBK 255lph Fuel Pump, Kirban AFPR, Kirban Short Shifter, K&N Cone, Forced4 VC Vent Kit, PA Performance 3g Alternator, Energy Suspension Bushings throughout, CHE LCA's, SFC's [/LEFT]
 

Finally all together and NO START ??

Reply #9 –
Well jcassity as it turns out it wasnt the eec relay as I purchased a brand new one and it did the same(no voltage). It seems the internal vref circuit is bad in the eec.

I had 2 LA series eec's but was afraid of the whole re-pin process to upgrade to the later eec's. Left with no choice I proceeded to do it and Voila - running again after 2 years.

A great big thanks !! to you for all your help in directing me to the problem.

Now I just have to reassemble the whole interior so that I can take it to an inspection station and get it back on the road.
1985 Thunderbird TC
2.3l .03 over,Ported and polished Head and E6 Manifold, LA3, T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo, Stinger FMIC, Forge BOV, Full 3" Exhaust, Essy Timing Gears & UDP's, BBK 255lph Fuel Pump, Kirban AFPR, Kirban Short Shifter, K&N Cone, Forced4 VC Vent Kit, PA Performance 3g Alternator, Energy Suspension Bushings throughout, CHE LCA's, SFC's [/LEFT]