A possibly expensive question.

Topic: A possibly expensive question. (Read 3203 times) previous topic - next topic

A possibly expensive question.

January 06, 2005, 10:53:37 PM

So anyone who's been keeping track of the score betweeen my car and I knows that the cars up at least 1 - zip (for those who don't I just recently had to have the oil pan/gasket replaced). Anywho's After all is said and done i've still got more work to do. Due to the somewhat diligent work of the mechanics that did the oil pan, they were able to deduce that i also have a leak coming from the rear of the lower intake manifold, Which in itself was an educated guess based on the path oil is traveling. So needless to say I am going to need to have this fixed to. Upon hearing this I got a few hundred idea's in my head about what i could do/fix/upgrade as a result of this. The big question I have (and this goes out to folks like jcassity, masterblaster, thunderchicken, eric, etc. etc. and so on) Since by my estimation a good 70 or more some odd percent of the necessary items are already going to be out of the way, should I go the final little bit and have my head gaskets redone/milled/valve job(if so needed)????

Now i've talked to my boss, who used to be a mechanic for the local state university's bus garage as well as my mechanic, both of whom's opinions I trust, and i've gotten 2 different answers on this. My boss believes that you should in a sense "leave the sleeping beast alone", which I can understand (the whole if it ain't broke don't fix it theory). Now my mechanic say's otherwise, and his reasoning was based on the so/so quality/failure rate of the gaskets for these particular engines (and no I don't believe he would say that just to con me out of money). I was gonna set up a poll, but figured i'd spend too much time typing this out as it were. But I'm looking for what the general consensus would be based on the milelage of the car (approx. 117,000 or so) the year of it (1987 so basically 17 years old) and the engine (5.0). So have at it if you will. Thanks in advance (oh and sorry it's so long i gotta learn to sum things up faster :wtf:!).

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #1 – January 07, 2005, 03:59:54 AM

5.0 i wouldnt worry. they rarly blow likw the 3.8's unless you have an over heating problem that could pop em. stick with what ur boss says if it's aint broke dont "fix" it. but if the car proves worthy and you still want to change the head gaskits get some e7's off a mustang or lincoln. and some headers from the same car or for now use urs or after market and give the car some power.

note for the e7's if you change to headers you need to change the exhaust. the factory headers wont bolt up . .
good luck

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #2 – January 07, 2005, 04:29:52 AM

You don't see many fox 5.0's blowing head gaskets. Put that same engine into a Panther chassis though (CrownVic/GrandMarqis) and they blow more frequently. I think it's the fact that the bigger cars are heavier and subject the relatively small motor to much more work all the time. The cars can carry more people and often do, sometimes pulling trailers, too.

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #3 – January 07, 2005, 09:01:22 AM

I'd have to chime in with the "don't fix it" group. The 5.0 isn't really known for blowing head gaskets, especially in stock trim. Opening up the engine now would just be a waste of money and could actually do more harm than good (all the crud from the swap getting into the oil pan, or you could expose a warped deck or head)

If you are gonna pull the heads I'd do what CougarCoupe88 recommended and find a set of e7's. If you're gonna do the work you may as well make an improvement

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #4 – January 07, 2005, 09:21:59 AM

No,, tinkering with the heads because of an intake leak does not compute. No contact, no juice, no sense.

You can repair that without fooling with the heads so dont break a good seal till you feel like going beyond the heads.

Get an intake gasket kit for a relatively cheap price and make sure our attention leans on the foward and rear lifter valley. Silicone the 4 corners with a good bit where the two flat gaskets but heads with the intake gaskets.

Ive broke too many things that were not broke just out of curiosity.
Breaking things not broke has its side effects,, you learn something.

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #5 – January 07, 2005, 10:01:04 AM

I recommend throwing away the intake end gaskets and using a bead of silicone instead. The end gaskets (especially the rear one) have a propensity for leaking.

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #6 – January 07, 2005, 06:48:18 PM

Quote from: JeremyB

I recommend throwing away the intake end gaskets and using a bead of silicone instead. The end gaskets (especially the rear one) have a propensity for leaking.

BINGO!!!!

Before you tear it apart, THOURGHLY clean the back of the intake and the top of the block where it mates. Now load up the area where they meet with sicilone rubber, and let it set over night. I'm bettin your leak will be fixed.

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #7 – January 07, 2005, 07:52:10 PM

Use RTV silicons and not the stuff you find in the plumbing isle at the hardware store

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #8 – January 07, 2005, 10:23:39 PM

*Sigh* Lets review, i'm asking if it would be wise from preventitive maintinance stand point to change the head gaskets since the intake gasket end is being taken care of. This is under the assumption that money isn't a non issue. Yes I could potentially upgrade the heads to the e7's (tho if I read right on coolcat's there's possibility I may already have them, gotta check again) But as nice as that would be I think I would be just as happy with what I got. I know the head's would need to be at the least milled, maybe a valve job, based on what the mechanic said I wouldn't have to do the deck (engine block?).
So I am simply looking at this from the stand point of while i'm at it, and have the money, would it be worth it. Not how to do it, or what to use, or the relationship to anything. Right at the moment the score is 4 against / 1 for.

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #9 – January 07, 2005, 11:02:48 PM

sounds like your leaning towards it so go for it. Dont poop around though, go for the gusto and do larger valves , new springs ,,, the whole works then shop around for a better flowing intake set.

while 3/4 of all removable sub assemblys are off your engine, its no sweat to pull out the engine and for around 140 bux you could get a ring and bearing kit. just a pinch more and you could core out the old crank for a matched crank/bearing set and save money on your ring and bearing kit,,, were probably up to about 250 now. sneak in a stock cam for about 85 or 90 bux but dont slack, get a higher lift cause you know your waisting your time if you dont cause the larger valves are just itching to show off. Say around 350 for lower end parts then you sneak in the bill for the head work and that will be about 300 extra for a good deal.

im getting a little carried away. You wont really understand till you see that tiny little block sitting there with the pistins peeking up at you saying,,,,,,"what about us down here

If you pull the heads off, it only means that your going out of your way to do so. the heads are not involved with the intake as far as bolts are concerned. Doing this stuff just leads you down the road of one more thing you regret.

Of course,, you could have the heads milled down .030 and when it all goes back together , you will Feel a difference.

you see, a lot of us here are hooked on this natural need to have our wrenches produce physical improvement you can feel. I just think that what you plan is pretty basic and great for the car ,, but it wont give you anything in return other than a gasket.
This is just an opinion of a person who has been down the road of "leme just do this" only to look back and say, "only if i had just done that"

good luck.,, and with any luck you could do most the work yourself and feel the pride of "I DID IT"

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #10 – January 07, 2005, 11:53:33 PM

Thing is, i'm not leaning yet, i'm just looking to see if it would be worth it to just keep going, yeah the intake bolts don't have anything to do with the heads, but i'm only thinking that since the intake will be off it's just a matter of unbolting the exhaust manifolds then going after the heads. As for the rings, i don't really think i'm burning much in the way of oil. If anything i may only be burning what's coming out from under the intake. I do see the point in going the rest of the way, however my idea with the car right now is simply giving it a little more horsepower while keeping or improving the gas milelage. I don't wanna go balls to the wall as it were, that's a little more expensive than i want to go. Mainly extending the life of this engine for now till i'm finacially able to afford droping a nice new h.o. motor into it, and it'll prolly be a good while too. But I digress I may be getting a bit overzealous but that's how I get with these things (overthinking them and such!).

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #11 – January 09, 2005, 10:23:53 PM

If it runs good, (no burnt valves) and it does not use oil (valve seals) why in the world would you break the seal on perfectly good head gaskets to replace them with perfectly good head gaskets that could go out just as easily. Also since it is leaking in the back of the intake where you wont have to look at it why not take TC 5.0's advice and spend $10 on a couple cans of carb cleaner and some rtv and fix it yourself. 110k is nothing if the oil is changed regularly and a clean air filter kept in. My .02

Re: A possibly expensive question.

Reply #12 – January 10, 2005, 09:34:55 PM

Quote from: jaybo

If it runs good, (no burnt valves) and it does not use oil (valve seals) why in the world would you break the seal on perfectly good head gaskets to replace them with perfectly good head gaskets that could go out just as easily.

That's the type of info i'm looking for. In talking with my boss again about this today this exact thing came up. He though, gave reasons like a cracked block or over heating or another problem causing a head gasket to go bad. Also that a head gasket can potentially never have to be changed as long as other things are kept in check. This is where I get stuck in the grey area of doing this job, tho leaning slightly more toward not doing it at the moment. If anyone has anything more in regards to this line of thought feel free to school me!. Or if anyone thinks otherwise speak up. I'm trying to get as much input as possible so I can make an informed logical decision.