Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: 460 turbo truck on March 05, 2006, 01:01:43 AM
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: 460 turbo truck on March 05, 2006, 01:01:43 AM
i want to get an aggressive camshaft for my new 2.3 project, what's the best camshaft for the buck ?!
i'm more into a new camshaft, than a rebuild, cause i want to switch to a roller setup,
keepin in mind i've got EFI, with a VANE meter,
1989 mustang 2.3 with LA3 comp. big vam, 35 # injectors, ADJ. fuel press. wiesco pistons .30 over, 5.7 rods, 1.89 intake 1.59 exhaust valves, dual springs, CNC ported head,and new oil pump (so what's the deal with the high volume pump being a bad idea?)
what's the fel-pro gasket with the wire ring i need?
help me make this thing move !!
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Red_LX on March 05, 2006, 01:10:55 AM
If you wanna switch to a roller cam, one good cam to run is the Motorsport A237. I just picked one up over the winter and I'm putting it into my car here before too long. You can pick them up cheap, too...I got mine for $100, and you can use basically any roller followers with it (I'm using the ones from my ranger roller that's in the car now)
Are your pistons dished or flat top? just curious.
Also I believe the head gasket you're referring to is the 1035?
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Ether947 on March 05, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
RR w/ adj cam gear would be my pick.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: 460 turbo truck on March 05, 2006, 10:08:21 AM
ummm....flat top with valve relief's in em' ...kinda like the pistons that are in there now,
it's kinda weird cause there is no damage to the block at all,
FORD A237 R 0.420" 226° 234° 110° not good for street, can be fast for drag racing if retarded alot, may increase turbo lag ( is there any thruth to that ?! ) the lobe seperation seems a bit to small to me,
I have used the .585 roller cam on every turbo motor I have built since, and it works well. is this guy nuts ???
i want to make some freakin power, but pass emissions, i odn't really care about real " streat able " i'm still a kid, every thing i own has a flowmaster, or no exhaust, and most of them run like , so it's no biggie to me
i found all this here .. http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Motor/camshaft.html
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: 460 turbo truck on March 05, 2006, 10:08:47 AM
who's RR ?!
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Red_LX on March 05, 2006, 01:24:06 PM
Uhh, you sure your CR isn't gonna be too high with flat tops? The dished pistons bring it down around 8:1, flat tops will probably make it more around 9:1. You'll have to be careful of detonation.
Anyway, about the A237- I don't know. I've heard from some people who love it, and others who said they lost all their bottom end with it. I'll just have to see what I think of it. I have an adjustable sprocket so I plan to play with the timing a bit if I don't like it straight up. The nice thing about it is that you can run it with all stock valvetrain geometry though.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: 460 turbo truck on March 06, 2006, 01:35:49 AM
pistons : i pln on running about 9:1 if not a little less becuase of the wildly ported head, the comp will be more like 8.5:1 ish, if not, i'll ask em' cause i want to run about 20 lbs of boost,
i'm also curious about your blow thru VAM setup..i've heard it's all a matter of changing it....and i've heard you have to tune it ? what did you have to do ?!
ALSO,
PCV question.....i'm not sure, but i think my turbo is drawing in oil from the PCV system, the intake's all oily, and the exhaust blows smoke like a bandit, on start up at least, i haven't had the time to let it warm up, due to the no exhaust and all, and new next door neighbors,
p.s any bet's on how much boost my N/A motor will take until it blows up !?
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Red_LX on March 06, 2006, 02:13:21 AM
there's details on how to do the blow-thru over on turboford...I really just did it because of my BOV leaking a little vacuum. It's not hard to do, you have to pop the cover off and move the little wheel thing inside it and stuff...
dunno about the other stuff though.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Ether947 on March 06, 2006, 05:51:10 AM
RR is short for ranger roller cam. :)
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 06, 2006, 09:24:03 AM
Quote from: 460 turbo truck
i odn't really care about real " streat able " i'm still a kid, every thing i own has a flowmaster, or no exhaust, and most of them run like , so it's no biggie to me
:bowdown: ...AAHHH to be young again.... :flip:
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: 460 turbo truck on March 06, 2006, 12:29:37 PM
i spent at least 30 mins looking and thinking about what RR meant...
aren't the ranger cams the same grind thought, and the N/A 2.3's ?!
maybe that's why my car runs like ..
and i'm not like....just got my licence young, i'm turning 20 this year, which is ....still a kid really..
ALSO, which is better, the intake setup off an 85 thunderbird turbo coupe motor, OR the N/A intake from my 89 mustang, ? or to hell with them both and go spend the money for 40bob's stuff ?! you wouldn't happen to have the link around for the details on how to do the blow-thru over on turboford would you ?
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Red_LX on March 06, 2006, 02:41:04 PM
Yes, the ranger roller is the same as every other 2.3L n/a cam. I think people like it because it still has decent bottom end, and you can retard it 4 degrees so it doesn't totally suck on the top end. I've heard some good things about the A237 though so I want to give it a shot.
Here's the thing about blow-through. http://www.turboford.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000229 It makes more sense once you pop the cover off the VAM and actually look at it.
and about the intake, is the '85 intake square, or inline?
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: 460 turbo truck on March 07, 2006, 01:58:25 AM
the intake is a square, and seems taller, and no righting on it...
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: turbopete on March 07, 2006, 08:47:23 PM
The A237 is basically DOA until around 3K. After that it comes on like an after burner. Exactly where it comes on depeds on your other mods and turbo sizing. Idle is slightly lumpy. Expect to give up 3-5" of vacuum. It can be run 2-4* advanced to bring the power curve down some. Some people run it 2*- for a bigger top end
The ranger roller is a truck cam and as such has a good low and middle. It's actually smaller than a stock slider - .355" vs .390-.400" It can be run on the minus side for more top end,
High volume pumps put additional strain on the shaft that drives the pump. It can cause the shafts to break or worse, strip out the teeth on the dizzy gear and aux shaft. A stock pump is all you need.
Hope those pistons are forged.
Good luck with the project
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Red_LX on March 07, 2006, 10:20:07 PM
If it has the square intake then keep it! That's the "tall" square intake, the one from the '89 mustang would be the "short" one and it doesn't work with the earlier valve cover. I have a "tall" intake. If you wanted to, you could send it to bob and he could gut it and do all that for you but I don't know how much he would charge to do it. I smoothed out and polished the inside of mine and opened it up a bit. I've heard the gutted intakes give up some low end but there's debate over that.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: 460 turbo truck on March 08, 2006, 12:49:18 PM
yea, the pistons that are going into the motor are forged,
i'm thinkin about sendin both upper and lower to bob, and havin him take care of them for me, and sending a exhaust header back with all of it,
Now, i've seen some people put like..an oiler just under the pistons..or something of the sort,
and what about crank sers, RedLX i noticed you've got one, do you know of it doing and good...any bad !?
i think i'll go with the A237 Cam, cause with all the work, and run it about 2* retarded, cause all in all ....1st gear is a waist of time, and by the time your back into second, and back on it, your still at around 2500 RPM, so that's about when it'll kick in..
any one know of where the best bang for the buck on valves are !?
i found a guy on E-bay in oregon, that sells valves and dual springs with titanum locks, worth it ?!
Opps..almost forgot...where can i find such a cam ?! will i need new rollers, lifters, what all will i need....is there a kit with all of it ?
Nick
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Red_LX on March 08, 2006, 01:38:58 PM
Factory turbo rods had oil squirters in them, but they were designed to oil the thrust side of the cylinder wall. I've heard of people fitting oil squirters that squirt at the bottom of the piston but I don't know much about it.
I really put the crank ser on as a shiznits & giggles/just in case sort of thing. There's a guy that sells em on ebay for $50. Really, you don't need one unless you're turning a lotta RPM's. I think a windage tray is probably more important. I built my own out of some perforated stainless sheet I had sitting around, it's not hard, just takes awhile to get it all fit right.
Don't you mean you would run the cam 2 degrees advanced? THat would move the power band down, retarding the cam moves it up.
You can just keep your stock valves if they're in good shape. You do need better springs though. If those dual springs are a good price, pick them up...you don't really need titanium retainers. Racer Walsh sells some springs that are low-end double springs and they'll be good for the A237.
Oh, and about the A237...it's not in production anymore. People seem to be selling them all the time though. You should be able to find one over on turboford, or at the very least you could probably find an A234 which is the slider version of the same cam.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Ether947 on March 08, 2006, 07:54:26 PM
Quote from: turbopete
The ranger roller is a truck cam and as such has a good low and middle. It's actually smaller than a stock slider - .355" vs .390-.400"
Well gee. I didn't know that. Screw the ranger cam then. Thanks for the info Mister Pete. :)
The one thing I'm still trying to shake is that things you would/can do to the 5.0, doesn't apply to the 2.3T. Stroking, Overboring, and all that other stuff seems to be a no-no or a complete waste of time and money.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: turbopete on March 08, 2006, 08:44:37 PM
There are some cam specs here including the Range Roller cam: http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Motor/camshaft.html
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Chuck W on March 08, 2006, 08:50:00 PM
Quote from: darkthunder
Well gee. I didn't know that. Screw the ranger cam then. Thanks for the info Mister Pete. :)
The one thing I'm still trying to shake is that things you would/can do to the 5.0, doesn't apply to the 2.3T. Stroking, Overboring, and all that other stuff seems to be a no-no or a complete waste of time and money.
By the time you figure in the ratio of the cam followers the lift difference of the RR is a wash. It's the reduction in friction due to the roller design vs the slider that is the gain really. It does well on most street-driven 2.3Ts.
The one thing I will suggest. ARP rod bolts. The rod bolts are the weak link in the stock bottom end. Everything else is good to go for 95% of the builds.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Red_LX on March 08, 2006, 10:56:44 PM
It's not that stroking is a "no-no" (and BTW, you don't bore to increase displacement- you can get a max of what, 8 cubes on a big block?), it's just that stroking a 2.3L is rather costly and the ends don't justify the means. Also, the factory pistons in the 2.3L Turbo are good enough that if the block doesn't need bored, you might as well just keep them...and in most instances, the block DOESN'T need bored, so people save their money on that part of the build.
Plus, all the power is made in the head...I would spend money on an aluminum head way before I would spend it on a stroker kit (which would cost as much if not more).
Oh and yes, ARP rod bolts- cheap insurance, $50 a set.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: 460 turbo truck on March 16, 2006, 07:32:22 AM
2.3 block if finaly going into the shop tommrow moring, i'm so siked,
Cleaned, Honed, and new bearings ....and ther' gonna " check it out "
for like 300 $ or so... pimpin !!!
Any thing else i should do,
i think i was gonna have the block shaved due to the pistons i was going to run to equal out to about 8.2:1 CR
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Red_LX on March 18, 2006, 01:54:03 PM
Check the journals on the crank, if they're scratched you'll want to have the journals polished, and if they're scored badly you'll have to have it turned.
Title: rebuiling a 2.3
Post by: Swif on January 20, 2011, 11:20:13 PM
Quote from: turbopete;73468
The A237 is basically DOA until around 3K. After that it comes on like an after burner. Exactly where it comes on depeds on your other mods and turbo sizing. Idle is slightly lumpy. Expect to give up 3-5" of vacuum. It can be run 2-4* advanced to bring the power curve down some. Some people run it 2*- for a bigger top end
The ranger roller is a truck cam and as such has a good low and middle. It's actually smaller than a stock slider - .355" vs .390-.400" It can be run on the minus side for more top end,
High volume pumps put additional strain on the shaft that drives the pump. It can cause the shafts to break or worse, strip out the teeth on the dizzy gear and aux shaft. A stock pump is all you need.
Hope those pistons are forged.
Good luck with the project
Quote from: 460 turbo truck;73577
yea, the pistons that are going into the motor are forged,
i'm thinkin about sendin both upper and lower to bob, and havin him take care of them for me, and sending a exhaust header back with all of it,
Now, i've seen some people put like..an oiler just under the pistons..or something of the sort,
and what about crank sers, RedLX i noticed you've got one, do you know of it doing and good...any bad !?
i think i'll go with the A237 Cam, cause with all the work, and run it about 2* retarded, cause all in all ....1st gear is a waist of time, and by the time your back into second, and back on it, your still at around 2500 RPM, so that's about when it'll kick in..
any one know of where the best bang for the buck on valves are !?
i found a guy on E-bay in oregon, that sells valves and dual springs with titanum locks, worth it ?!
Opps..almost forgot...where can i find such a cam ?! will i need new rollers, lifters, what all will i need....is there a kit with all of it ?
Nick
Is this 2* retarded from factory timing on stock cam? Also will this effect ideal if not set right or if ignition timing is off?