Well, after months of trying to find time to dial in my adapter.....I finally picked up my lasered version on Fri and took an hour or so to fiddle with it.
For those that don't know, I'm planning to swap an SHO 3.0/3.2 V6 into my '84 XR-7. I'm using a 5.0 bellhousing to allow for the better choice of clutches and flywheels. It's more of a long term project, but to avoid any folks calling :bs: I figured I have to make some headway once in a while.
Here's a couple pics.
The adapter plate
(http://ustio.com/file_dump/chuck/Misc/Adapter%20plate.jpg)
SHO meet T-5
(http://ustio.com/file_dump/chuck/Misc/SHO50_1.jpg)
(http://ustio.com/file_dump/chuck/Misc/SHO50_2.jpg)
There's a gap between the bellhousing and the adapter because I need to mill a couple reliefs in the bell for a couple of the bolts that attach to the block. With some minor machine work on the bellhousing I'm actually going to have 3 bolts that go all the way through the bell/adapter to the block, so that makes me happy.
I was concerned initially about the starter clearance, but it appears that I'll be able to use one of the mini-starters and not have to mod the oil pan. I actually have one on the way (thanks ebay ...$27 + S&H for one :D ) I still might need to to clear the K-member, but I'll probably not be using a stock one anyway, but I'll be curious to see how it fits.
The next hurdle is the flywheel. For right now I'm going to mod a 157T 5.0 flywheel and change the crank mounting holes and have it zero-balanced. Of course I just missed a nice cheap one on the 'bay. SO now I'm on the look-out for a 5.0 flywheel and engine plate.
So there you have it....finally progress.
:hick:
Now that is just ed cool.
Question, tho: Doesn't the SHO-6 use the same bolt pattern as the other FWD Ford sixes and fours, such as the 3.0 Vulcan, 3.8, and 2.3 HSC? And if so, isn't that the same pattern as the 4-cyl T5?
You sir have blown my mind!
Looks awesome! Great job!
thats pretty friggin sweet my man.....
The SHO uses the Vulcan bolt pattern, but you are limited to Ranger and Aerostar trannys for a direct bolt up, but then you are still saddled with a py trans and clutch. There is supposedly a manual 3.0 bellhousing that can be made to work, but again see above.
The 5.0 bell is really not that far off. The biggest PITA was getting the patterns dialed in around the crank centerline.
So Chuck, it looks like two of the t-5 bellhousing bolts actually go into the sho block?
No. Those two are close enough for me to mod the bellhousing to be able to do it that way though. The lower one is not very far off, but the upper one is a fair bit. I may actually remove the upper stud and mod the other upper bellhousing hole and do the same there as well.
Looks good. I had a '90 SHO for 14 years. I bought it brand new. It rocked. I loved the look of the Mustangs guys when they left the light and you stayed right ther with them.
cool shiznit, I am all for seeing it done. Any pics of the engine?
I just have the one on the stand that's not 100% assembled..nothing to look at. Needs rebuilt. I haven't concerned myself with getting an engine ready until I had the tramsmission situation sorted.
I may find a good running one when the time comes for it, or buy one anyway and store it away. Dunno yet.
Hmm too bad chuck, I know a guy down in Florida that has like 3 or 4 3.0/3.2's.
Now correct me if i'm wrong chuck but dont the v8's sho's have the same bellhousing as the 3.0/3.2's?
I think they are different. I know there was a discussion about it on turboford a while back, but since the site is down I can't go look for it.
Chuck I thought I had another option for you, but a dead end. Seams advance adapters makes an adapter plate to go between the bellhousing and a T-5 for a 2.9 ranger. But I forgot that the 3.0 and 2.9 had different bellhousings. It didn't specify a mazda tranny or a mitsubishi tranny but I'm guessing one for the mazda tranny would work because those came behind 3.0 rangers.
So Ranger 3.0 bellhousing + Advance adapter + T-5
Well, I'm really not worried about someone else's adapter at this point. I had my reasons for going this way to begin with.
I didn't see anything on their site either for any Ford V6 other than the 4.0.
Even the ranger site said that the adapter was no longer listed on the site.
A while back when you were questioning the crankface location on the 5.0, was that the reason to use your adapter? Need the extra space?
The crank-to-block offsets are different between the two blocks. The plate helps take up that difference. I had to use some sort of plate anyway to mate the two together, and the thickness of the adapter now puts the bellhousing in the same relation to the SHO block as it would be to the 5.0 block, which also will put the flywheel in the correct orientation to everything as well.
My original design was thicker than this, but then I realized the offset difference and modified accordingly to avoid having to space the flywheel away from the crank.
So this will alow you to use the stock cable clutch setup?
Yup....it will be 5.0 from the flywheel back....clutch and all.
I have to convert the car BACK from hydraulic (converted it when I did the C5 to T-5 swap way back when.....) but that's a non-issue.
Now that flywheel perks my interest. Looks like an 8 bolt crank, the 5.0 being a six. Are you going to have the holes welded up and redrilled? Or just a new custom unit? Looks like a completely off the wall pilot bearing will have to be made.
For now I'm going to weld up and redrill and have the unit 0-balanced.
I could get a custom AL one...but I'm not looking to spend almost $400 on a just a flywheel right now.
The pilot bearing will be easy. I'll just make an insert and use the appropriate pilot bearing.
Maybe it's too late but the Tempo GLS v6 had the same tranny minus a small issue with the clutch but I believe it was just the input shaft mated to a Tempo/Topaz tranny didn't match the other perfectly, also I believe the mazda 626 had the same tranny as I believe it was a mazda design to begin with. I believe your looking for the MTX IV.
Huh?
Not sure what you're on about here.
I'm looking to drive the correct wheels on the car...not the fronts.....
You have a Pm chuck.
That's dang cool man. That kind of thing certainly makes a simple HO swap look like childs play.
I wouldn't mind doing the opposite. Put the 5.0 HO and t-5 drive train into the SHO. It wouldn't benefit power but it would be more reliable and I like rear wheel drive, like big fast cars should be. Maybe in about 10 years when I'm done with my t-bird I'll start on that. I suppose there would be a lot of cutting to do it, but I think it would be awesome.
Do a google search for v8 focus, that taurus v8 swap may be easier than you think. They don't do it but the company shows how to do a focus, i would think a taurus would be easier.
There was an article in MM&FF awhile back, about a company that has kits for a rear drive Focus, after readin' it, I want one soooo bad it ain't funny...
Can you imagine a Focus with a FI 351W?
The look on camaro drivers' faces would be awesome as you left them in the dust and tire smoke...okay, back to reality...
Kugel Komponents makes the kit, or sells it, anyway.
here's a link: http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/ (http://"http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/")
here's a shot of the motor:http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/1.JPG (http://"http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/1.JPG")
Hey Chuck! I've been saving my SHO to put an AWD Aerostar set-up in it, but now I think I'll chop it up and throw it in the Coug, you !!! :D:D:D
Meh...
Some more work on this. I'll get pics and updates up soon (changing where I'm going to be hosting pics..so I'm waiting until I get that taken care of)
My buddy modded the bellhousing for me, and that all looks good. Now all it needs is cleaned and painted.
I also got my flywheel yesterday, so I took a couple minutes and mocked it up on the SHO block.
Needs 4 things done (well 5)
1. Weld and redrill crank bolt holes
2. Make an adapter ring to match the crank snub on the SHO with the center of the 5.0 flywheel (SHO=1.26", 5.0=1.75"). Not a big deal there, just make an adapter ring.
3. Machine a shallow recess in the back of the flywheel. A couple of the heads of the bolts on the oil seal carrier contact the base of the flywheel. Nothing major...just contact, but it needs to be clearanced.
4. Have it zero-balanced/surfaced.
5.Optional step - Have it cryo-treated to relieve the machine/welding stresses on it.
So far it looks like I'll be into the flywheel for under $200, with the cryo, which is 1/2 of what the "custom" AL one would cost me.
More pics and info as it comes along.
neet n' sweet
OK..a couple more pics.
First the bellhousing mods. They primarily consisted of a couple new holes and a couple reliefs for bolt heads. One of the reliefs has a hole as well because I decided I just may use that as a through bolt instead of the initial plan.
(http://www.turbochuck.com/images/84XR7/SHOswap/bellmod_1.jpg)
(http://www.turbochuck.com/images/84XR7/SHOswap/bellmod_2.jpg)
(http://www.turbochuck.com/images/84XR7/SHOswap/bellmod_3.jpg)
Next is the initial mod on the flywheel. I still have to drill out the holes,, but I figured I just leave two and elongate them so they match up with the SHO bolt circle. The mod work on the flywheel might happen next week, and then off to get balanced and surfaced.
(http://www.turbochuck.com/images/84XR7/SHOswap/flywheel_1.jpg)
That's all for now. I'll get pics after the flywheel machining is done.
Would you be willing to get those adapters produced? i know people on http://www.shoforum.com would be interested... please email me streetessencems@yahoo.com
Dan-
I'm going to post your questions from your PM here
"I saw your post about the sho adapter plate, i too and attempting a sho swap. I was going to use the aerostar bellhousing but i like your idea, i have a few questions if you wouldn't mind. Are you going to make a lower adapter plate to attach the bell to the oil pan? is the trans input shaft going to be a reasonable length into the crank or will you be running the longer s/n 95 input shaft? how thick is that plate? "
Once I know 100% for certain the ministarter will clear everything as is..ie the oil pan, block, etc, then I will probably change the adapter to incorporate the attachment to the oil pan. I have thought about it though, but that was secondary since I wasn't certain right off on starter clearance.
On the input shaft. The crank face to block offset difference between the SHO and 5.0 is approx 1/4"....so that's what the adapter is...A standard Fox 5.0 trans input shaft should work out fine.
Also, as far as producing them. I'm not going to consider it until I'm certain it all lines up and I have all the notes and details on any mods. Even with the adapter it will not be a mod-free bolt in (as noted by the bellhousing mods).
Hey,
Thanx for the quick reply, i completely respect your choice..i will make sure to read up..im sure many others will also, this will be an awesome task...
Hmmm, I don't ever recall you mentioning this project. It's not taking the place of your I300 is it? Regardless it's looking good. You do some really ingenious and great work. Can't wait to see updates.
Well I was never doing an I300 project....the I200 X-Flow, yes..but not the big block.
This is not taking the place of that project....just concurrent progress at the moment. The 83 Tbird will have the I6 and the 84 XR-7 will have the SHO...
as far as the shos go my buddy bought his for 300 bucks running with a blown trans. stripped the main shaft out the trans. now my buddy pulled the intake and now it won't start so hes looking to sell the car, and his dirt bike and buy a running driveing one, if ur still interested in a good motor its got 93k on it, needs new plug wires, ones cracked, adn when i say crakced like the sqaure top is almost cracked in half, and he won't belive me thats thats y its missing like a bitch. if he decides to get rid of it ill let u know about the motor if ur interested.
It all depends on where the engine is located....
Rhode Island i have to go over tomarow see what the dumbass did but i got off the phone with my dad told me some tips so i might be able to get it running tomarow if ur remotly intrested mybe hell get off his lazy ass and do something with it. its to bad the body is almsot perfect, interior is good, and its got low miles, but the guy he bought it off of let a young guy take the car out for a spin he came back parked the car said he didn't wnat it the guy go in to move it and the trans was done, so he cut the price from 500 to 300. ran pretty good ill tell u what happenes and u tell me if ur interested, o and u could prob get it fairly cheap, if hes smart and parts up the car and sells it u might get the motor few hundred or less
RI is a bit far from me to grab an engine. Thanks though.
all right well figured id offer
Just wondering if the 3.6 V-8 from the later model 96-98 SHO will work as well.
I'm not as familiar with those. I'm not 100% certain what the bell pattern is (if it's still Vulcan or not). I know I would LOVE to get my hands on one. They are pretty sweet aside from the whole cams falling apart thing.....
The SHO V8 was based on the 2.5 Duratec, so I would imagine the bellhousing is the same as a Duratec. In that wikipedia thing on Ford engines somebody posted earlier I think it mentioned it
Now that you mention it, I recall that too.
Well, a quick little update.
The welding/redrilling the flywheel is going to be a no-go. The weld is just too ed hard to drill. We even tried a little heating to try and anneal it and still no dice.
I did contact the folks at SPEC though and I can get a 157T SBF billet flywheel with zero balanced and with no crank pattern machined yet for about $260. That's not too bad really. If I have it cryoed before I install it I may never have to worry about it again. So I'm going to go that route.
Picked up an engine plate and I'll need to trim out some of that to clear the rear seal housing on the SHO block. Not a biggie.
Also, I checked the mini-starter...and it clears just fine, so no issues there.
So while I'm getting funds together for the flywheel I'll start looking into the pilot bearing situation.
thats awesome chuck...this will deffinetly be one of my favorite swaps...sho engine just seems too make sense in a tbird/cougar.
where the heck do you get that done and would it work with a stock flywheel? ive heared of knife makers doing that too their steel to strengthen it.....
man...my grammar flipin sucks....and i think its getting worse....
Well there is a place here just north of town that does it. It would work with pretty much anything. It strengthens components and on things with friction surfaces (like rotors or flywheels) it greatly improves the service life.
Heres a link that may help you out about the pilot bearing and such
http://members.pen 15s.net/rdgrauman/Healey.html
Here's a link if you want to learn a little bit more about cyrogenics -
http://www.percryo.com/lead_page.htm
We used to work with these guys a lot, cryo-treating everything from valve adjusters to entire engines. It made a world of difference on certain things.
hmm front mount throttle body? that is bad ass. That first link there is a must read.
I've seen the Healy page. The guy did some nice work.
I plan on flipping the intake 180* as well.
I'm kind of at that point right now since I've decided on the billet flywheel and the fact that the pilot bearing can wait really, that I need to have an engineless Fox-chassied car in my driveway to be able to make much more progress. At that point I can get the engine/trans "located" and work on motor mounts.
Think you will be able to handle making motor mounts chuck? :rollin::tg:
I dunno. It might be more than I can handle ;)
The Three Biggest Lies of All Time:
1. I won't come in your Mouth
2. Honey, she meant nothing to me
3. Hey Paul, I sent out your mounts:rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
:ttiwwp: Update us with some new ones !
It's not a lie when you haven't said it ;) They're at the platers with everybody else's :hick:
Not really too much more to picture...but I can probably find time this weekend to stick everything back together again (with the starter) to show (SHO?) how it all fits.
BUMP Any updates??
I think you need to get a 60mm turbo set up on that thing too...Of course I'll let you slide and you can go with a Pro-Charger...lol. Sweet work there Chuck...we are hungry for more updates!!!
I wish I had some more updates. I'm at that point right now that I could start with fitting it into the chassis...but I don't have one handy at the house at the moment. It might be a little bit before I can do that :(
DAM, the suspense is killing me! seriously tho, this and the xflow I6 swap are my 2 main interests on this board now lol.
CHUCK!!! When are you going to be releasing a swap kit? lol That would be a riot...who needs a 351 swap kit...just buy your SHO swap kit...lol. Any new progress???
No real new progress. I'm waiting to get a chassis here to build motor mounts. From there it shouldn't be too much more work really. Getting the cooling system sorted will be the biggest PITA.
I do actually have a Merkur guy who wants one of the adapter plates. I just need to get the studs/dowels in it and plate it and get it to him.
It looks like hopefully I'll have a chassis here within the next couple months....
Sounds like a plan...if you push to get it done for Cat Jam next year, I might actually show up! lol I can't wait to see how it comes out.
I was just curious if anything new had happened. I wont lie, Im here to see how the adapter plate turns out and then try and talk you into making me one. I have an SHO motor sitting in my shed that is itching to find a home in a nice front/rear chassis
Well not a whole lot new. I finally got the swap car home this past weekend, but I've been busy with other things.
I'm going to be swapping/shuffling cars around the next couple/few weeks and should be able to at least have a chassis here at the house to scope motor mounts.
Once I get a running combo, I don't see an issue with selling the adapter.
Or simply selling me the whole car...lol :D
Eh, can't blame a guy for trying...lol...so um...what's your address, where is the car kept and what hours will nobody be home? LMAO...just kidding man. Can't wait to see how it turns out...you'll have to get some track times man!
I just thought of something chuck, we are going to need some spacers for the flywheel to compensate for that adapter plate.
Methos
Nope ;)
The crank to block face offset difference between the two is the same as the adapter plate :pbb:
sweet, so are we going to be able to use the 5.0 trash plate(block plate)? And for EFI, I think I'm going to try megasquirt with a v3 board. should be interesting...
Methos
Yup, the 5.0 block plate works.
OK, well since the 2.3T is taking a big poop on me and I'm not quite ready to get into the X-Flow hybrid, the '83 is going to be the mock-up , swap sled for the SHO swap.
Once the other cars are out of the way, I'll get into this with more earnest. First order of business...motor mounts.
I don't know Chuck, are ya sure you can handle that? lol, I still say when you're done, you should sell an SHO swap kit. Good luck!
-Don
We'll see ;) I may at least have a few pieces available.
Just wondering if there was any progress? I really want to see a rwd SHO that is feasible
Been sidetracked by ALOT of things. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to get done this winter. I've just got alot going on at the moment.
I know it's possible though, just have to get the time to do it.
itll be there! well as long as all the parts arent sitting in a field in the elements or something :giggle:
but im guessing theyre not, prolly in a garage right? so dont worry about it, focus on whats important. at least thats what mom always says "be patient ITS NOT GONNA GO ANYWHERE." and i know shes right but its always hard when i gotta wait for whatever reason to start/continue a project on my car or something.
and i know its cuz im an impatient little KID, but that doesnt change anything. doesnt mean im gonna be able to resist it any better...:grinno:
No the parts are in my heated garage at the moment. If I had more room to spread out it wouldn't be such an issue....
Chuck, That's one helluva job your doing. I had "thought" about trying to do that swap when the SHO's first came out. Big problem thou, no wrecked cars in which to get and engine, lack of equipment to do it, lack of place to perform the work. Then I lost interest and moved on. I can't wait till you're done with it just to see that it has been done. Great Job!!!!
Hey, I am working on the same swap into an '83 Tbird, and have noticed a discrepancy in the height between the crossmember with the steering rack, and the hood, and the height of the SHO motor, to the tune of 5" in the wrong direction. Have you thought about it?
If one will fit under the hood of a Merkur XR4Ti...it will fit under the hood of a Tbird.....
ought to be a pretty cool setup. i just sold my 91 sho + not too long ago. i LOVED that car, but i couldn't pass up the money the guy was offering me for it... plus it led me back into my truly favorite car, the turbocoupe.
good luck with the swap.
Resurrecting this old thread, found it from some other forums as I am working on a SHO swap in another vehicle too. So did you ever finish it?
Nope.
Have some more important things going on in my life right now.
There is a guy local to me that has a 67?f100 with a SHO motor in it, fuel injected. I can't get him to take pictures of it, it is even converted to rear wheel drive.
Not really a "swap", but very cool none the less...
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=100860
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0TWyfgCUE8
Very cool!
Now that's what the SHO should've been, and not some front-drive box.
Thats an odd way to think about an SHO :screwy:
It's still a FWD Taurus...which = FAIL
The only good thing about the SHO is the engine. The rest is .
well, color me odd :rollin:
That's pretty cool, but, as we all know...it's still a Taurus.
Course...that's the pot calling the kettle black, as someday I want to/hopefully will swap a complete TC driveline into my '87 Escort GT...rear drive and all...
Agree... FWD=SUCKY
Its hard to make FWD and performance go hand in hand.
I agree. I loved my Bonneville SSEi, best handling FWD car I've ever driven, yet it still isn't as nice as a RWD or AWD vehicle. The odd thing is that so many people agree that FWD does not make a convincing performance vehicle, and at the same time many think SAAB to be a great performance sedan. Who knows!
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
I've had a few SHOs and I felt like they were pretty capable cars, you need to remember its a TAURUS!
Want another one? make ya a deal...LOL.:D
If I could I would man, if I could I would. I have a few to many cars already...
Want a POS 98 Grand Prix GTP? :mullet:
You just keep on getting those gm pieces of sh*t........I remember the Catera.....and the nyou bought the GTP.......people make so many bad choices lol:D