Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: 97mercpimp on January 08, 2006, 03:30:48 PM

Title: more HP
Post by: 97mercpimp on January 08, 2006, 03:30:48 PM
yeah I am looking at putting hooker lers on my 97 cougar 4.6,then a chip and cold air induction, already have K/N airfilter, but need much more low end torque, got full posi, but hard to show off sometimes without brake torqing(cooch shiznit), like a lot of low end growl, plus my office is only a 1/2 mile from my house so everyday to and from work is like a drag race, and around here we got too many chevy jackasses and ricers beat a few so far but i wanna finish my car out so it is a silent killer if you know what I mean, looks normal on the outside (except for the 18" bling) but deadly under the hood, no N.O.S.
Any advice will help a fellow THUNDERCAT man,
oh yeah what happend to gtbird.com?? anybody know?
Title: more HP
Post by: Sick88Tbird on January 09, 2006, 02:05:53 AM
You should get yourself some JBA headers, aftermarket upper plenum, throttle body, underdrive pulleys, 4.10 gears, a shift kit/programmer and a nice converter with about 3000rpm stall speed....a converter advertised for a stang will stall higher in the heavier 'Bird than it would in a 'stang.  That's just a nice start and might even get you into the low-14 sec. range on a nice cool day.
Title: more HP
Post by: Haystack on January 09, 2006, 06:32:36 AM
ditch the stock cam. It makes low torque up higher then you are used to.
Title: more HP
Post by: Snubz-N-Ttown on January 09, 2006, 02:12:58 PM
Quote from: 97mercpimp
(except for the 18" bling)


Come on man, you cant say this and not hook us up with a pic. Got any?
Title: more HP
Post by: Sick88Tbird on January 09, 2006, 05:09:46 PM
Quote from: Haystack
ditch the stock cam. It makes low torque up higher then you are used to.


Dude, have you ever driven a 4.6 powered 'Bird?  They don't make much low end torque...that's what he wants...good luck finding cams to make more low end torque without killing power everywhere else.
Title: more HP
Post by: t-bird85 on January 09, 2006, 06:03:31 PM
You claim its deadly under the hood ( if i interpreted this right if not OH well), What exactly do you have done, a list of mods would help us help you.
Title: more HP
Post by: Haystack on January 09, 2006, 06:38:18 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird
Dude, have you ever driven a 4.6 powered 'Bird?  They don't make much low end torque...that's what he wants...good luck finding cams to make more low end torque without killing power everywhere else.


That is what I was saying. I have driven a 94 cougar alot, its ed near impossible to spin the wheels.
Title: more HP
Post by: V8Demon on January 09, 2006, 09:54:28 PM
The older SOHC 4.6's are not known for being torque monsters (neither are the 99-04's either however they ARE an improvement)  Gears would help.  So would a port and polish on the heads and intake.  If your budget allows maybe some forced induction that would help in the low end department (perhaps a Kenne Bell or Whipple)
Title: more HP
Post by: JAMEZILLA on January 14, 2006, 10:43:51 AM
For about $600 , around here anyway, you can get yourself a set of 3.73:1, or 4.1:1, or even 4.3:1  rearend gears installed. You say your a 1/2 mile away from work so that's when you'll like'em! The best bang for the buck I ever got was swapping my 3.55s for 4.10s in my 95 F150. I don't drive on the hiway much so it didn't negatively affect my gas mileage. Probably helped if anything in the start stop traffic. You want bottom end without sacrificing the upper HP.....GEARS!~
Title: more HP
Post by: Red_LX on January 14, 2006, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: Haystack
ditch the stock cam. It makes low torque up higher then you are used to.



Don't forget that on a 4.6, it's camS, plural, and cam kits for the 4.6L's are EXPENSIVE!

Really, the best bang for the buck thing you can do on early 4.6's is swap to 99+ (PI) heads. Just doing that will seriously give you something on the order of 60-90 hp, from what I've seen in the magazines.
Title: more HP
Post by: V8Demon on January 17, 2006, 02:56:21 PM
Quote
Really, the best bang for the buck thing you can do on early 4.6's is swap to 99+ (PI) heads. Just doing that will seriously give you something on the order of 60-90 hp, from what I've seen in the magazines.


Don't forget most of those swaps include a port and polish as well as the PI intake which I believe you must use with PI heads.
Title: more HP
Post by: Sick88Tbird on January 18, 2006, 02:12:46 AM
The PI head swap is more expensive than it's really worth...you're looking at about $1000 just for the heads, then you still need the intake and the ECM.  If you're talking about heads, you'd be better off sending them to TEA to get ported.  But, again, that will probably diminish low end torque slightly.
Title: more HP
Post by: shame302 on January 18, 2006, 02:22:56 AM
you should be able too get a 99+ mustang gt 4.6 engine pull for around a grand if not cheeper, id search one out and drop in a whole new motor....
Title: more HP
Post by: Red_LX on January 18, 2006, 12:27:15 PM
A PI swap may be expensive...but hell I've seen '98 & earlier mustangs in magazines (and on horsepower TV) that they put a supercharger a several other things on and they couldn't even muster 300 hp out of the thing. That's just sad!
Title: more HP
Post by: t-bird85 on January 18, 2006, 01:32:56 PM
Quote from: Red_LX
A PI swap may be expensive...but hell I've seen '98 & earlier mustangs in magazines (and on horsepower TV) that they put a supercharger a several other things on and they couldn't even muster 300 hp out of the thing. That's just sad!

What were they doing wrong,  A SC on the Grand prix we have it pulling over 300Hp with minor mods. less than 1000 in aftermarket parts. its a 3.8.

My 5.0 is pulling 350 to the wheel (Motor from a 92 GT) with no power adder at all.  What kinda super charger where they using.
Title: more HP
Post by: Red_LX on January 18, 2006, 05:25:56 PM
It's not the supercharger...it's the engine! More specifically...the cylinder heads.
Title: more HP
Post by: 5.8fastcat on January 19, 2006, 11:32:25 PM
If you want bang for your buck and seat of the pants feel. Change gears and then add a little shot of NOS.
 Just my 2 cents. The head swap is not worth the $$. THe later model engine swap would be better
Title: more HP
Post by: V8Demon on January 20, 2006, 08:13:39 AM
I love the way your car sits 5.8 fastcat!

If you were to do a motor swap on a car with a mod motor anyway why not search out a 4.6 DOHC or perhaps go bigger and hunt down a 5.4?
Title: more HP
Post by: 5.8fastcat on January 20, 2006, 10:11:51 PM
I have some pic's of a guy from TN. he put a '96 cobra(4valve) engine in a '96 T-bird.
 He had it running on the stock 2V computer when he brought it to us.  We burned him a chip an got alot more power out of it.

Thanks Paul, I love my AirRide suspion.
Title: more HP
Post by: slowfoxbird on January 23, 2006, 10:39:40 PM
Quote from: Paul Flockhart
I love the way your car sits 5.8 fastcat!

If you were to do a motor swap on a car with a mod motor anyway why not search out a 4.6 DOHC or perhaps go bigger and hunt down a 5.4?


Because, a 5.4 wont fit under the hood of an MN12 properly.  You have to add a taller hood, and rig spacer plates to adapt the 4.6 intake manifold.
Title: more HP
Post by: V8Demon on January 24, 2006, 09:18:01 AM
Quote
a 5.4 wont fit under the hood of an MN12 properly


Now you're getting picky:rollin: :rollin:
Title: more HP
Post by: slowfoxbird on January 24, 2006, 05:29:22 PM
I know, but if you want to keep it a sleeper, ther is no way in hell you are going to put a truck intake under that low hood.  I have a 94 Bird, I am not even sure everything would fit right with the manifold adapters, becuase they add about an inch to the height of the intake.
Why does everyone think the 4.6 has no torque.  That engine has just under 300 ft/lbs at the crank.  All you need is a set of 3.73s like I put in mine, and let it all hang out after that!!
Title: more HP
Post by: sscobrapride on January 24, 2006, 08:48:47 PM
I'm pretty sure that a 5.4 will fit in a mn12 aslong as you put the 99 or newer 4.6 van intake on it and aslong as you get the fuel rails needed.
Title: more HP
Post by: slowfoxbird on January 25, 2006, 07:23:13 AM
Impossible.  A 5.4 has a taller deck height, therefore it is about an inch wider where the intake mounts to the head.
Title: more HP
Post by: V8Demon on January 25, 2006, 08:30:17 AM
Quote
That engine has just under 300 ft/lbs at the crank.


It's not that it doesn't have torque.  It's that the torque high up in it's RPM range.
Title: more HP
Post by: David on January 25, 2006, 08:48:56 AM
Quote from: 5.8fastcat
If you want bang for your buck and seat of the pants feel. Change gears and then add a little shot of NOS.
 Just my 2 cents. The head swap is not worth the $$. THe later model engine swap would be better
I have to disagree on this, my friend and I did the PI swap on his mustang and the difference was like night and day.  I'm sure if you asked him he would not hesitate to do it again on any non-PI 4.6.

Of course then he put the Kenne Belle on there and the car changed again :)
Title: more HP
Post by: Haystack on January 25, 2006, 12:13:07 PM
I seen a 351 cougar locally, around 96, with the stock hood. Dunno about motor mounts or anything, but its not impossible.
Title: more HP
Post by: Red_LX on January 25, 2006, 01:14:22 PM
Quote from: Haystack
I seen a 351 cougar locally, around 96, with the stock hood. Dunno about motor mounts or anything, but its not impossible.


He's talking about the 5.4 SOHC, not the 351.

Anyway I have two points to make here.

First, I have an issue of MM&FF where they swapped a 5.4 into a '99+ Mustang and kept the truck intake on it, and it fits albeit under a cowl hood.

Second, I also have a couple issues where they had project "Frightning" where they put the supercharged 5.4 into an '86 Mustang. The engine fits in the bay, but the supercharger setup is so tall that they had to cut a hole in the 4" cowl hood they had on the car.

So, it seems to me that a 5.4 would fit as long as you had a cowl hood on the car.
Title: more HP
Post by: sscobrapride on January 25, 2006, 09:43:39 PM
Ok after researching and calling a guy, I've found that the 5.4 will fit, it just needs some greasing.  The 5.4 van intake will fit under the stock hood of the 96-up mn12's along with the a machined cobra intake.  I guess the cobra intake width differences can be taken care of at the machine shop without altering it drastically.  The shock towers are the main problem.  Can't be massaged out too well, and it isn't something that can just be cut out.  Also, the lower K member has to be taken in to consideration for an exhaust.    Out of the 3 guys who have done it, most say it was well worth it, but very hard and more involved than it seems.  It would in all actually be easier to drop 351 in it, slap a blower on it, and strap in.  Another thing about the 5.4 swap is that the valve covers can't be taken off until the engine is pulled.
Title: more HP
Post by: slowfoxbird on January 25, 2006, 11:20:00 PM
Quote from: Red_LX
He's talking about the 5.4 SOHC, not the 351.

Anyway I have two points to make here.

First, I have an issue of MM&FF where they swapped a 5.4 into a '99+ Mustang and kept the truck intake on it, and it fits albeit under a cowl hood.

Second, I also have a couple issues where they had project "Frightning" where they put the supercharged 5.4 into an '86 Mustang. The engine fits in the bay, but the supercharger setup is so tall that they had to cut a hole in the 4" cowl hood they had on the car.

So, it seems to me that a 5.4 would fit as long as you had a cowl hood on the car.


I have seen that article, and agree that it can be done, on a Mustang.  Mustangs have much more hood clearence than an MN12 does.  I have an intake tube that I made for my 94 out of a 7.3 Powerstroke intercooler tube, and I still had to flatten part of it to fit under the hood right.
Title: more HP
Post by: slowfoxbird on January 25, 2006, 11:23:05 PM
Quote from: sscobrapride
Ok after researching and calling a guy, I've found that the 5.4 will fit, it just needs some greasing.  The 5.4 van intake will fit under the stock hood of the 96-up mn12's along with the a machined cobra intake.  I guess the cobra intake width differences can be taken care of at the machine shop without altering it drastically.  The shock towers are the main problem.  Can't be massaged out too well, and it isn't something that can just be cut out.  Also, the lower K member has to be taken in to consideration for an exhaust.    Out of the 3 guys who have done it, most say it was well worth it, but very hard and more involved than it seems.  It would in all actually be easier to drop 351 in it, slap a blower on it, and strap in.  Another thing about the 5.4 swap is that the valve covers can't be taken off until the engine is pulled.

 
See my above post about hood issues, and then think about how easy the 351 option would be.  All you need is a set of 91 to 93 MN12 V8 mounts, and drop in the 351, aftermarket intake for easy breathing, and use the earlier PCM and wiring.  Or just go and put a dual plane manifold and carburate the thing, even more simple.